Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works

[Sigtrygg]

So my question is do you want anyone but you gear heads to use this book.

Which book?
The revision Gier is doing to Vehicles is unlikely to change very much, the knock on affects are too great. But if the work is put in now to have an underlying system then when 3e MgT happens there could be a consistent equipment design system.

So now we are going to add the effects of different fuels and fuel use rates? Are we going to add modifications for different types of the same base fuel? Did you know that different types of wood were preferred for different applications of steam power so let’s add that aspect.

I know you are being sarcastic but there are instances where different fuels matter, the patrol/gasoline used in Formula 1 is an example.

I know let just throw in as much detail as we can so it takes days to design a vehicle by hand. I hope Gier is ignoring you guys other wise this new book will be absolutely useless simply by being way to complex.

Speak for yourself, not for others. Traveller has always had a gearhead community that enjoys using the design sytems.

This is a RPG not a engineering textbook

Striker, MT, Star Cruiser, Fire Fusion & Steel - notice the progression?

 

[Sigtrygg]

This is one of this reasons I support fixing the chassis system. It’s actually a good ideal it’s just the execution that’s the problem. It can be done in a ways to fulfill just about any options and vehicles type without requiring an excel spreadsheet to use. Done right it’s a good balance between complexity and functionality.

But in order for it to be comprehensive and compatible there has to be an underlying design system. The chassis revision is what would be in this forthcoming book, but an underlying system is what will bring unity to the disparate design systems.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I think some of you are forgetting the fact that the more details you add the more complex the required system is. And the more complex the lower both the use and the book sales. If you don’t believe me look up a RPG called Phoenix Command. Or look up the Laws series of D&D supplements they never broke the bottom 10% of the gaming market.

Or look at the sales figures for GURPS Vehicles, TNE FF&S - Traveller attracts gearheads,

Another factor is the more details you add the larger the book. No you can’t just put in charts it’s a RPG book the so called fluff is an important part of the book. So we already have a good section of CSC that need to be rewritten and put in the book (tho I guess you can just reference the CSC pages and just put a chart in for this) plus new vehicle types trains for example, new vehicle operations and combat rules, and a whole new section of buildings and rules for them. Are you guys looking for a book or a series of books?

A series.
Core tech book, with a separate book for starships, vehicles, weapons, robots, biotechnology.

The chassis system as presented in the current vehicle handbook is a mess but the concept is solid and can be used as a basic for solid system that gives you a good solid selection of options and is solidly compatible with both Robots and Highguard. I know you probably can’t make the Batmobile for some Gundam this way but that’s not the purpose of this book.

Vehicles is a Traveller book, not a Third Imperium book. It should be able to make anything I can imagine.

Please think and don’t just spout venom about this post

 

[MasterGwydion]

It seems easy enough to do; most of that is a suspension type called 'legged', just choose the number of sets of legs. Even just one set allows movement; more is marginally faster & more stable. Most anime mecha use a drive called 'Myomer', but Solomani have built diesel, petrol, and electric motor powered legged vehicles. Defining performance is not too much of a stretch, either -- lots of existing games describe how well 'legged' propulsion performs vs 'wheeled' and 'tracked' and 'hover'.

I believe this is the "Walker"-type, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Geir]

Great. I wasn't going to allow Walker to use Wind... now I must reconsider....

 

[MasterGwydion]

That is one of the craziest things I have ever seen. Considering some of the weird crap I have seen in My life? Props to Condottiere for making Me stop and go, "WTF is that!?!?!?!" lol

 

[MasterGwydion]

Great. I wasn't going to allow Walker to use Wind... now I must reconsider....

I would have said it isn't possible, but I just got proven wrong. lol

 

[wintertraveller]

IMTU, we tend not to involve vehicles except those found in published adventures. Left to our own, we nearly always chose to travel to plant surface with streamlined ships and/or smallcraft.

I mention this with the thinking that maybe the vehicle revision and overall MgT2 game design would benefit be establishing clearer advantages for using vehicles as compared to ships. Or perhaps, vehicles could be ships and use ship rules with a collection of addition options adding value to their surface options?

In any case, I hope this project goes well. Cheers

 

[MasterGwydion]

IMTU, we tend not to involve vehicles except those found in published adventures. Left to our own, we nearly always chose to travel to plant surface with streamlined ships and/or smallcraft.

I mention this with the thinking that maybe the vehicle revision and overall MgT2 game design would benefit be establishing clearer advantages for using vehicles as compared to ships. Or perhaps, vehicles could be ships and use ship rules with a collection of addition options adding value to their surface options?

In any case, I hope this project goes well. Cheers

I actually do use Vehicles a lot. Most adventures take place on a planetary surface and many planets do not let you just fly your ships wherever you want. Think about today's world. You can have a helicopter, but you are not allowed to fly it wherever you want. Same with a plane. If you land a plane outside of an airport, the local government is probably going to be pretty angry at you. Might even involve criminal charges and jail time. I usually assume that planets with a decent TL and decent population have some sort of regulations in place discouraging this. It also depends on the government type of the world, but that is not really relevant in this discussion.

 

[Vormaerin]

In Classic Traveller there was a lot of adventures written on the assumption that the player characters didn't have a ship. Probably about 50% of them? Plus a larger percentage of the patrons in things like 76 Patrons didn't expect a ship. It was not unusual for PCs to travel commercial between planets, which made having adventures in jump less about PC screwing something up and also allowed for shipwrecks and other drama without having to destroy the PC's major asset.

Mongoose has some support for starship-less campaigns, but a lot of it is reprints of Classic Traveller adventures.

 

[tytalan]

One of the classic Traveller Adventures had two-man hydrofoil crafts us to hunt super-sized whalelike creatures they had fusion power and a grav drive as well as a gun but the grav drive was for speed and it couldn't fly or even hover. something to think of

 

[MasterGwydion]

In Classic Traveller there was a lot of adventures written on the assumption that the player characters didn't have a ship. Probably about 50% of them? Plus a larger percentage of the patrons in things like 76 Patrons didn't expect a ship. It was not unusual for PCs to travel commercial between planets, which made having adventures in jump less about PC screwing something up and also allowed for shipwrecks and other drama without having to destroy the PC's major asset.

Mongoose has some support for starship-less campaigns, but a lot of it is reprints of Classic Traveller adventures.

Now I feel old. Most of My campaigns use vehicles and not all of My campaigns have the PCs starting with a ship. Heck, in some of My campaigns the PCs never decide to leave the planet that they are on, or as you said, fly commercial.

 

[Condottiere]

Air/boat.

 

[Vormaerin]

As far as general reasons for travelling in a vehicle instead of your shuttle, it depends on what you are trying to do. Obviously, arriving in a 727, even a VTOL one, is a bit more obvious than an air/raft or ground car. If you are searching, ATVs and Air/Rafts have windows. The ship's boat generally doesn't. ATVs and Air/Rafts can also go into terrain that you can't land a spacecraft because it is uneven, soft, or covered in trees. The Safari ship has an ATV because landing your spacecraft is a terrible way to sneak up on game.

So even if you aren't dealing with a situation where shuttles have to land at the downport for smuggling control or safety issues, there's still plenty of reason why the vehicle is the better choice.

 

[Sigtrygg]

One of the classic Traveller Adventures had two-man hydrofoil crafts us to hunt super-sized whalelike creatures they had fusion power and a grav drive as well as a gun but the grav drive was for speed and it couldn't fly or even hover. something to think of

They don't have a grav drive.

The adventure is A:9 Nomads of the World Ocean.

"These small watercraft are designed and built by the nomads especially for hunting for daghadasi. The two-seater craft carries a pilot, who also fires the small missiles used in the hunt, and a gunner, who mans the laser turret used to ward off chimearocs and daghsharks, the two major hazards encountered.
The hunterfoil is three meters long, 2 meters wide, and 2 meters tall. It can function as a hydrofoil or submersible and has an endurance of about eight hours of continuous use, powered by a small fusion generator."

 

[MasterGwydion]

They don't have a grav drive.

The adventure is A:9 Nomads of the World Ocean.

"These small watercraft are designed and built by the nomads especially for hunting for daghadasi. The two-seater craft carries a pilot, who also fires the small missiles used in the hunt, and a gunner, who mans the laser turret used to ward off chimearocs and daghsharks, the two major hazards encountered.
The hunterfoil is three meters long, 2 meters wide, and 2 meters tall. It can function as a hydrofoil or submersible and has an endurance of about eight hours of continuous use, powered by a small fusion generator."

I love research!

 

[agentwigggles]

We should also have skill Minimals for vehicles.
I know for aircraft there is an measurement of operation complication. At my town spaceship museum, the Rotary Rocket was rated as a 10 form difficult to operate. Which meant that is was dangerous to fly.

Reiterating this, as may have been lost in the the... uh debate.
An amount of folks are in favor of something like this on the official discord.
There would be some interplay agility of vehicles.
So to expand upon this idea and not an execution;
The Difference between Min. Skill need to operate the vehicle and the traveller skill, caps the agility of the skill. Matching or exceeding the min. skill allows for the full use of the agility of the vehicle.
Those slick as fuck G Racers, arent easy to handle.
A scout buggy meant for crayon eaters, with agility five, can just about the suffer the inexperience of someone who never seen a wheeled vehicle.

As an example;
Scout Buggy has Agility 5, Min Skill of 1.
Traveller with a skill of Zero. The agility of the craft is capped at 0. The Vehicle is doing a lot of heavy lifting getting the driver from a to b.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Reiterating this, as may have been lost in the the... uh debate.
An amount of folks are in favor of something like this on the official discord.
There would be some interplay agility of vehicles.
So to expand upon this idea and not an execution;
The Difference between Min. Skill need to operate the vehicle and the traveller skill, caps the agility of the skill. Matching or exceeding the min. skill allows for the full use of the agility of the vehicle.
Those slick as fuck G Racers, arent easy to handle.
A scout buggy meant for crayon eaters, with agility five, can just about the suffer the inexperience of someone who never seen a wheeled vehicle.

As an example;
Scout Buggy has Agility 5, Min Skill of 1.
Traveller with a skill of Zero. The agility of the craft is capped at 0. The Vehicle is doing a lot of heavy lifting getting the driver from a to b.

I would have to disagree. If We went down this road than you would have to do the same for spacecraft. Flying a 1-G craft should be a lot easier than controlling a 13-G craft. So, while I agree you have good reasons for your thinking, it would require changing rules in other books and I wonder, "What positive affect would this have on the game?" What does it add? I could see it as a Traveller Companion-type optional rule. That would be cool, but as a base rule, I am not sold on it.

btw. Aren't there already negative modifiers to the check for going fast?

 

[coolAlias]

The Difference between Min. Skill need to operate the vehicle and the traveller skill, caps the agility of the skill.
...
Scout Buggy has Agility 5, Min Skill of 1.
Traveller with a skill of Zero. The agility of the craft is capped at 0. The Vehicle is doing a lot of heavy lifting getting the driver from a to b.

The difference could mean either:
a. Min 1 - Actual 0 = 1
b. Actual 0 - Min 1 = -1, presumably applied to the Agility e.g. Agi 5 - 1 mod = trained but otherwise unskilled user gets DM+4 from the rugged scout buggy's good handling and overall stability.

Your example outcome matches neither, but seems to be "DM from Agility cannot exceed the Traveller's Skill Level."