Because ideally, you want 'baselines' that aren't fractions/decimals. People can then choose to use smaller version if desired, but that becomes a choice, rather than something thrust upon them. In that particular example, I'd be happy to say 5 spaces generates 3 power, and vehicles are just slightly more inefficient than ships.
Ship vs vehicle cost
- Thread starter Nelphine
- Start date
I'm not sure what you mean. The idea is to have comfortable seating take 1 space, as per current rules.
I'm also not sure why different configuration is relevant. It's still supposed to be an overarching idea to build useable vehicles, and you can handwave that type of detail to make it look like your vision.
i fully admit to.. not using Robots much, and not owning the Robot Handbook. That will be for someone else to resolve!
Give me my sophonts to do everything! Down with drones!
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
4/7th of the time, I would agree... Now, even though I put formulas with powers of four and even, if I recall, some logarithms in the World Builders Handbook, Traveller is supposed to be a Table Top RPG, and so having a paper design sheet with the ability to do math on paper should be a goal for most design systems (says the guy using an electronic calculator 40+ years ago to make Striker vehicles - when the adjective 'electronic was still necessary - so take that for what's it's worth).
Fairly round numbers and no more than two digits of detail is at least a good starting point.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Something that could be done using existing ideas and terms would be to label the different kinds of seating, Low (economy), Standard, High (first class-size or half again as large as the standard), and Luxury (enough space for an Aslan to curl up on the seat, say double the size of a Standard Seat. Just My two cents.
Although, My Aslan comment made Me wonder what We do for races of different sizes. Droyne seats or seats made for humans or Aslan in Battle Dress. They count as one size larger than normal. Geir! If your listening, maybe something for the Vehicle Handbook. Everything in every book thus far is geared only to human-sized sophonts. Droyne being smaller would mean that their seats would be smaller as well. Same with their airlocks, and other accomodations. I would guess that a Droyne ground car will be smaller than an otherwise identical human ground car.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Also, life-support needs.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Yes.
They have to have a game implication, though. But as someone who has crossed the Atlantic in the middle seat in the back of an Icelandic Air 757, I can attest that there are morale implications to long duration tight seating. And back sweat implications. Not pretty. Of course that's for civilians: if military operatives are used to be sandwiched into tight quarters, the duration before they start getting DMs for, um, back sweat, leg cramps, and other comfort factors would be longer.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Trying to do World Builder's Handbook calcualtions with a spreadsheet is killing me. If you ever go crazy with the math again, could you create a spreadsheet that allows us to plug in data and get the stuff figured out?
Or, hope of hopes, do that for the world generation part of the WBH even. Please.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
One experience with Air Canada was enough.
Anyway, in theory, inertial compensation eliminates the need to worry about backrests.
However, terrestrially, there are all sorts of ways to squeeze in capacity for conscious bodies, with or without modifying for performance, improved or degraded.
Short term or thrombotic.
Anyway, in theory, inertial compensation eliminates the need to worry about backrests.
However, terrestrially, there are all sorts of ways to squeeze in capacity for conscious bodies, with or without modifying for performance, improved or degraded.
Short term or thrombotic.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes, agreed that is a valid point albeit not quite the right reason. I think it would be better to say that Traveller is a rules-medium game not a rules-heavy game, as rules-heavy games tend to be over complex and virtually unplayable.
But all RPGs can be considered crude simulations in a way. Wargaming started off as a way of simulating strategy before troops were physically deployed. After that, you could say that RPGs and Eurogames both evolved out of history of that type of experience.
JustEastOfTheEdge
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes, but in the case of RPGs, how does the extra detail offered impact the players? If it generates fluff, then we can do that without formulae.
I do think Traveller risks being rules-heavy at times, but mostly in the supplements. The books on robot and world construction are fine works, but in game terms what does it come down to? Robot X, after extensive calculations, has this gun and these stats. So, as a GM, I can just decide the robot has those stats. Same for worlds. I think not many players care if World Z has 3 dead worlds and that the sun is a G2. They just want to know what they can interact with: "what is there, can I buy stuff, does it have dinosaurs, etc."
Of course, there are people that love to make these things—I used to before I realised life is too short for generating things to a level of detail that most players will never engage with.
I do think Traveller risks being rules-heavy at times, but mostly in the supplements. The books on robot and world construction are fine works, but in game terms what does it come down to? Robot X, after extensive calculations, has this gun and these stats. So, as a GM, I can just decide the robot has those stats. Same for worlds. I think not many players care if World Z has 3 dead worlds and that the sun is a G2. They just want to know what they can interact with: "what is there, can I buy stuff, does it have dinosaurs, etc."
Of course, there are people that love to make these things—I used to before I realised life is too short for generating things to a level of detail that most players will never engage with.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
By your own logic then, why have a weapons list at all? Why not just have the Referee make everything up? Then you don't even need to buy a rulebook. Or you simply say only one gun exists in all of Charted Space, no matter the TL. None of this is Fluff. All of it has mechanical implications, hence not fluff. Fluff is descriptive text with no mechanical effect.
Referee fiat also makes more work for the Referee. Player wants a robot? He grabs the book and builds what he wants. In your method, the Referee has to figure everything out alone with no guidelines for how things work each time a player wants to make a new doodad. How much do things cost? How fast do they go? Yes, you can make all of that up with no rules, but how do you keep it consistent across decades of running games? Unless you have the brain of a supercomputer, you will never be able to keep it all straight and consistent for your players.
If you have players that don't care, play D&D-style. Hack and Slash games are fine for those who enjoy them, but I have always found them boring.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
At the table I want simple.
I need to know how heavy stuff is, how much damage it does, how much damage it can take, how much armour it has, any special traits, how much energy it generates or how much energy/fuel it needs, how much ammo, and its cost.
Not all of the above apply to every item of equipment.
Away from the table I will happily open up FF&S to design stuff, or if I want something a bit faster vehicle wise MgT Vehicles can be made to work.
I need to know how heavy stuff is, how much damage it does, how much damage it can take, how much armour it has, any special traits, how much energy it generates or how much energy/fuel it needs, how much ammo, and its cost.
Not all of the above apply to every item of equipment.
Away from the table I will happily open up FF&S to design stuff, or if I want something a bit faster vehicle wise MgT Vehicles can be made to work.
JustEastOfTheEdge
Cosmic Mongoose
Have you heard of the slippery slope fallacy? I said what matters are those details that are relevant to the running of the game. You have an unnecessarily argumentative tone on this forum.
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J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
If you are opening up FF&S at the gaming table to build an item during play, you are using FF&S incorrectly. Build stuff players will encounter between sessions -- and FF&S is great for determining energy requirements, damage capacity, armour, and etc. In session, just makes a 'let us go with this' call, and correct it at the next session after the item is formally designed.
Limpin Legin
Cosmic Mongoose
Yes, my reply was kinda assuming the core rulebook only. If you add more sourcebooks to the game, then that is your choice. If you are not interested in robotics anyway then, as referee, you can just skip them. I'm in a campaign at the moment where the referee has outlawed AI and psionics. So I am intrigued where the campaign is heading.
On one level, I think the most compelling RPG-elements are the plot plus the interactions, where the choices of those interactions matter. The RPG just makes the most repeatable interactive elements available as a game mechanic. The rules also give those elements more substance and unequivocal consistency.
On another level, the reverse can happen. That is, the game mechanics are thought of as potential tokenised backstories or plot narratives. So for every game stat, there is a potential backstory and plot involvement waiting to be written. Of course, some stats are never written with a backstory because they just don't feature. In which case, the stats have saved you and the players a lot of time.
On another level is the beginner character with less skill or resourcefulness, who cannot solve the game challenges underhand other than resorting to brute force or combat. Then the rules provide for these situations, in every way except reputation.
Yes. Take a real-life analogy. If you were driving on a motorway with friends, would you all be bothered about whether you were passing a clump of trees or a bush en route to your destination? Probably not, unless you were all botanists or something. The point is that now these details are included, they can be woven into plot elements. Or, because this is science fiction, then there are people who are interested enough to know the difference, in some way. Same goes with things like rations and sleep. With those, the referee can make a point about doing enough to keep the PC alive, or just skip the details altogether, and give the players a free lunch!
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Sorry you feel that way.
JustEastOfTheEdge
Cosmic Mongoose
Well, comms with just typed words is always prone to misunderstandings. One of the joys of modern life, eh.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
This is a fact! lolWell, comms with just typed words is always prone to misunderstandings. One of the joys of modern life, eh.
