Chokes

[Yokiboy]

Are there rules for choking your opponent in a grapple?

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Red Tulwar]

Are there rules for choking your opponent in a grapple?

Good question! We just had a choking/grapple sequence in our last session. I resolved it by the regular grappling rules and it took FOREVER (both fighters had 50+ hit points).

Perhaps a special choking maneuver is warranted. I was thinking of making a choke attempt possible after a grappler has won an opposed grapple check (after the grapple is initiated). Then the victim of the choke would suffer damage as per the drowning rules until he either died or broke the hold.

Of course, I haven't play-tested this. Any other suggestions?

 

[Grim Wanderer]

Make choking a feat. A good wrestler will know several choke maneuvers, while someone that is untrained could probably only choke someone by luck.

Grim Wanderer

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Can't you already make an attack against an opponent you are grappling with? IMO, that would cover a choke. Of course, it would be cool to have a feat or a maneuver that covered choking!

 

[Yokiboy]

I've been watching a whole ton of MMA and NHB competitions lately, and I think that both Grim Wanderer and Yuan-Ti are on to something. A feat or combat maneuver would be great.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[rook111]

Grapple, as written, can already do damage to Hit Points, which in an abstract system can always be discribed as chokeing. There is also the Crushing Grip Feat which alllows all or part of your grapple damage to be applied to either Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity, which can be used to reflect all sorts of various holds and chokes.

IMO adding more feats and rules just muddies the water.

 

[Grim Wanderer]

I don't agree with rook111. I don't think adding another feat would muddy things at all. Wrestling/grappling is a very specialized form of combat so there should be a set of skills to represent this.

A properly applied choke hold could subdue as well as kill, so a feat to represent this should in no way make things more difficult, on the contrary, it would resolve any questions without the need for guesswork. A choking feat can only add flavour to the game, IMHO.

Grim Wanderer

 

[InsomNY]

Of course it can subdue or kill. That's why you can choose to do pin damage as lethal or non-lethal. With that and Crushing Grip, what more do you need?

 

[Arkobla Conn]

I prefer this to be a combat manuever. There are already so many feats to choose from, I'd prefer not to ad them if it can be covered elsewhere.

 

[argo]

There is also the Choke Hold feat from OA

Choke Hold (general)
Prereq: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist
Benefit: If you pin your opponent while grappling and mantain the pin for 1 full round, at the end of the round your opponent must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Wisdom modifier). If the saving throw fails, your opponent falls unconscious for 1d3 rounds.

Personally, I haven't decided yet weither or not to use Crushing Grip. At first it seemed stupid powerfull, but now that I am more used to combat in Conan it seems only very powerfull instead. I agree though that there is no need for two such feats. I would either use Crushing Grip and leave it at that or else use Choke Hold in its place.

 

[Yokiboy]

There is also the Choke Hold feat from OA

Choke Hold (general)
Prereq: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist
Benefit: If you pin your opponent while grappling and mantain the pin for 1 full round, at the end of the round your opponent must make a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Wisdom modifier). If the saving throw fails, your opponent falls unconscious for 1d3 rounds.

I love it, and will definitely use it. I can see my Khitan monks kicking even more ass now. :twisted:

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Qjedi]

Has anyone found an explanation why Improved Grapple is a subfeat of Improved Unarmed Combat?
Imp. Unarmed has always been explained as a form of Martial Arts in the rules as I understand them. They have a Brawl feat for the other kind and my group hasn't decided whether to get rid of the prereq for Imp Grapple or not. We are still playing it by the rules for that one, but most of us disagree with it...

 

[argo]

Has anyone found an explanation why Improved Grapple is a subfeat of Improved Unarmed Combat?
Imp. Unarmed has always been explained as a form of Martial Arts in the rules as I understand them. They have a Brawl feat for the other kind and my group hasn't decided whether to get rid of the prereq for Imp Grapple or not. We are still playing it by the rules for that one, but most of us disagree with it...

Improved Unarmed Strike teaches you how to move in close to your opponent and put your hands (or feet, or elbows or whatever) on him without getting pummled in turn. This can represent many different martial arts from western boxing to karate to capeopea (sp?) to down-n-dirty wrasslin and anyting in between. For most characters in Conan it is going to represent boxing (which can be verry nasty if you arent' fighting by the wussified queen's rules).

Brawl simply increases the damage you do unarmed. This can represent anything from a devistating right hook to some kung-fu pressure point nonesense. For most characters in conan it will be the right hook.

IMO it makes perfect sense that before you learn to put a guy in a headlock you need to learn to get inside his reach in the first place. Being able to do more damage once you get a hold on him is nice, but it isnt' required and so shouldn't be a prerequisite.

Fruthermore, it works from a balance prespective. Grappling is powerful and Improved Grapple is definetly a second-tier feat. I'd advise you keep the feats as they're written.

 

[Yokiboy]

With Argo around, there's no need to reply to rules clarification questions. Nobody does a better case of stating the whys and hows of rules balancing.

TTFN,

Yokiboy