Imperium capital ships of the 5FW - some thoughts
- Thread starter ChrisJ
- Start date
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
That was my gut answer too, but I think he's talking about the change in relative strengths as the bay sizes increase and how Meson is the odd duck out.
Actually I think the other two are odd in the relatively low power costs of large bays. Previous Highguard version made the large bays kinda useless for anything but missiles, new Highguard makes them a bit overpowered - linear or better in damage by size, but lots cheaper in power output.
See the problem with your answer is those changes affect all three so its unimportant and does not affect the issue
What I’m talking about is the fact that the large Meson gun bay shows no improvements yet the power requirements jumps not only up but past the other two while the other two get a steady improvement. When you compare all three the small and large bays have a steady progress while the large bays the Fusion and Particle continue they progress while large meson bay jumps in power requirements while shows no improvement’s in performance. The damage multiplier is mute because it’s across the board. The large Fusion and Particle bays both increase in range and damage with the corresponding increase in power requirements while the large Meson bay increases in neither while the power requirements not only increases 400% but also bypasses the power requirements for the other two. And to make this even more significant is all three show increases in damage from small to medium and both the particle and fusion show a increase in both range and damage from medium to large while the meson doesn’t.
bay the power for a meson when compared with the Fusion and Particle.
Small bay
Fusion power: 50 Damage: 6D Range: Med
Meson power: 20 Damage: 5D Range: Long
Particle power: 30 Damage: 6D Range V Long
Med Bay
Fusion power: 80 Damage: 7D Range: Med
Meson power: 30 Damage: 6D Range: Long
Particle Power: 50 Damage: 8D Range: V Long
Large Bay
Fusion power: 100 Damage: 10D Range: Long
Meson power: 120 Damage: 6D Range: Long
Particle power: 80 Damage: 10D Range: Distance
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Mesons ignore armour.
The base damage and multiplier is all about how it interacts with armour. Basically larger bays are better against heavy armour.
Not true the damage multiplier only takes effect after armor and screens. So the multiplier changes nothing. By your point there should have not been any changes to either particle or fusion guns. Also meson bays are affected by meson screens. Fusion gun have AP why would they get better because of the size of the bay using your point they should not a comparable increase to particle bays when compared to fusion bays. Instead there AP increases based on the bay size. And there should have not been a damage increase from small to medium meson bays.
Look at the chart
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
No, you look at the chart. Now work out average damage for the die roll, then use the multiplier.
Better yet consider how much armour you are going to have to penetrate before applying the multiplier.
Just for chuckles lets say you are fighting a battle rider with 30 armour.
Small bay
Fusion power: 50 Damage: 6D Range: Med [av. 21 damage - no effect]
Meson power: 20 Damage: 5D Range: Long [av. 17.5x10 = 175 damage]
Particle power: 30 Damage: 6D Range: V Long [av. 21 damage - no effect]
Med Bay
Fusion power: 80 Damage: 7D Range: Med [av. 24.5 - no effect]
Meson power: 30 Damage: 6D Range: Long [av. 21x20 = 420 damage]
Particle power: 50 Damage: 8D Range: V Long [av. 28 damage - no effect]
Large Bay
Fusion power: 100 Damage: 10D Range: Long [ 5x100 = 500 damage]
Meson power: 120 Damage: 6D Range: Long [av. 21x100 = 2100 damage]
Particle power: 80 Damage: 10D Range: Distance [ 5x100 = 500 damage]
Better yet consider how much armour you are going to have to penetrate before applying the multiplier.
Just for chuckles lets say you are fighting a battle rider with 30 armour.
Small bay
Fusion power: 50 Damage: 6D Range: Med [av. 21 damage - no effect]
Meson power: 20 Damage: 5D Range: Long [av. 17.5x10 = 175 damage]
Particle power: 30 Damage: 6D Range: V Long [av. 21 damage - no effect]
Med Bay
Fusion power: 80 Damage: 7D Range: Med [av. 24.5 - no effect]
Meson power: 30 Damage: 6D Range: Long [av. 21x20 = 420 damage]
Particle power: 50 Damage: 8D Range: V Long [av. 28 damage - no effect]
Large Bay
Fusion power: 100 Damage: 10D Range: Long [ 5x100 = 500 damage]
Meson power: 120 Damage: 6D Range: Long [av. 21x100 = 2100 damage]
Particle power: 80 Damage: 10D Range: Distance [ 5x100 = 500 damage]
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Quite.
The difference is actually slightly smaller, as you add Effect to the damage before multiplier.
Even the small bays will penetrate Armour 30 sometimes, so the average is not zero (the distribution is not symmetric).
Take a small PA bay:
An average of 0.37 × 10 = 3.7 damage is not very impressive, but better than zero...
An 8% chance of a crit is a problem for small ships.
For bonus points consider how Evasive Action affects 1 Large Bay vs. 5 Medium Bays.
Except add in meson screens and you just eliminated the attack. Considering only armor only give half the actual situation.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Screens act in a completely different way: they don't interfere with the attack before the modifier and only once (not against every attack).
Yes, if you have enough screens you stop the attacks completely, but when you run out of fresh screens the attacks penetrate completely. A completely different dynamic.
And it works just the same against any size of bay.
There is no screen that interferes with either particle or fusion bays so again the jump in power requirements for a large meson bay makes no sense especially since there’s no corresponding increase in the medium bay. Or do you think that the large meson gun bay is 400% more than the medium or small or 250% more powerful than a large fusion gun bay or 200% mire powerful than a large particle bay? Also you can’t discount meson screens since they are a defense mechanism just like armor.
