Arma: Fighters:Anti-Fighter:

[katadder]

the problem with the minbari at tourney level is that the best ranged ship whilst trying to keep the numbers up is a teshlan, and that has range 20" tops on its nuetron laser so cant even get the +1 for stealth if it wants to return fire.

altho this isnt stopping me take minbari to the MoW tourney as there was only one at the last tourney. and the centauri are too easy to use wait until next year tho when i have my abbai, then you will all die

 

[JayRaider]

I wasn't refering to keeping them at long range, your choice of 2 ships left the enemy with lots of initiative sinks,which they would use to enter your weaker firing arcs.
And even post Arma, if the enemy enter 8 range u still get a 50% chance of stealth being successful. And your complaining!!!

 

[katadder]

actually a teshlan has stealth 3 within 8" then it only needs a fighter or scout to bring it down to 2.

 

[Burger]

I wasn't refering to keeping them at long range, your choice of 2 ships left the enemy with lots of initiative sinks,which they would use to enter your weaker firing arcs.
And even post Arma, if the enemy enter 8 range u still get a 50% chance of stealth being successful. And your complaining!!!

How do you figure 50%? Most ships are stealth 4+. Within 8", its 3+. If they have a scout, some fighters to do STF!, or are Vorlons/Shadows/Drakh, then its "anything but a 1".

And please feel free to name ANY Minbari fleet selection that can keep at 20" or more and return fire effectively. I'll be very impressed if you can.

 

[Davesaint]

the whitestars fighter has overtakent the nial as best but for worst value as at least you get 2 nials for a whitestar fighter who come in at one per skirmish point.

Oh yeah, you're right, WS fighters are the only one that is worse bang for buck than Nials. I'll never be buying ANY of them, except the free ones with a WS Carrier. I can get a proper White Star for the RR cost of 1.5 fighters!

IMO... WS Fighter should be patrol, 1 flight per wing. Nial and Tishat should be 2 flights per wing.

Have you considered taking Flyers? Thery are 2 per patrol point. They are only a +1 dogfighter, but with a 5+ stealth and the same weapon load as a nial, they aren't a bad choice.


Dave

 

[JayRaider]

Leshath,Morshin and Sharlin stealth 5. Choose them instead if you want the higher stealth value.

 

[Reaverman]

the whitestars fighter has overtakent the nial as best but for worst value as at least you get 2 nials for a whitestar fighter who come in at one per skirmish point.

Oh yeah, you're right, WS fighters are the only one that is worse bang for buck than Nials. I'll never be buying ANY of them, except the free ones with a WS Carrier. I can get a proper White Star for the RR cost of 1.5 fighters!

IMO... WS Fighter should be patrol, 1 flight per wing. Nial and Tishat should be 2 flights per wing.

Have you considered taking Flyers? Thery are 2 per patrol point. They are only a +1 dogfighter, but with a 5+ stealth and the same weapon load as a nial, they aren't a bad choice.


Dave

Yeah, then along comes a Narn emine

 

[Alexb83]

Ahhh that was a glorious victory of early EA over the scourge of the space ways the evil Minbari.

To be fair Alex altho your tactics are sound in theory, in practise most opponents wont let you stay at range especially EA and Narn with their shorter range weapons and it can be surprising how small the board actually is. Dont forget that the Minbari will also normally be outnumbered due to their top heavy fleet composition.

Not having a go just pointing out a couple of things especially as both Burger & Reaverman have tried those kind of tactics.

Perhaps I've been spoiled by my years playing Full Thrust on a 12x8 board. I like to try and stay optimistic, and you'll forgive me if I keep suggesting things that have already been tried, I don't have the luxury of having tried them. And if others have tried them before, at least I'm thinking in the right direction.

 

[katadder]

Leshath,Morshin and Sharlin stealth 5. Choose them instead if you want the higher stealth value.

leshath has just mini beams, and hull 4 so when they get close as they will, then scout/fighter you that means its dead.

morshin, 2 raid points and with assassination in the tourney isnt worth it. sharlin, 4 raid points, how to get yourself bottom of the tourney in one easy step.

 

[JayRaider]

Then the Minbari should make enemy scouts/fighters there first priority for destruction.

 

[Burger]

Then the Minbari should make enemy scouts/fighters there first priority for destruction.

Scouts hide at the back of the enemy fleet. Most have stealth, and will be outside of 20".
Fighters, if I'm wasting my main weapons on these then the entire enemy force will be within 8" before I can say "oh you dodged anyway, oops"

 

[JayRaider]

Try taking Minbari ships with a Nial onboard and win fighter supremacy.
Your point about the scouts hiding at the rear is valid. Difficult to deal with.

 

[katadder]

minbari are usually outnumbered in fighters by anyone but the ISA or centauri who both have fighters as good as or better at dogfighting than nials.

 

[JayRaider]

Yes ISA and Centauri fighters as good or better.
But even when outnumbered 2-1 against most other fighters, the nial will win.

 

[Davesaint]

Failing that, you can close to within 18 inches, and attempt to avoid his forward arc, whilst retaining any one of yours.

You're having a giraffe. Please, play the game and get some real experience, before making any more tactical lectures!

Burger,

As someone who plays 3-6 games per week, Alex has very valid points and they should not be discounted.

Here's an example of a 5 raid Minbari fleet list and the amount of fusion cannons it has

Leshath - 8AD F 6 AD all other sides AP Mini-Beam
Tinashi - Same
Tinashi - Same

That is 24AD Forward and 18AD to all sides Not counting your Beams. If you use your Fusion Cannons at the fighters on the way in and your Beams at the Capital Ships until the fighters are dead or the fighters are no longer in the firing arc facing the opponents capital ships, you will do just fine. On average you should kill at least 4 fighters per turn at range 18. The largest number of fighters you will likely see in a 5 raid tournament will be 40 Kothas which have a single AD weak. This takes care of your problem of "weak" hulls. Also they are speed 8, so you can outrun them. The largest amount of T-Bolts you will likely face is 20 on 5 novas. Tolerable.

Dave

 

[katadder]

that fleet would get quickly nuetered tho cos only 3 ships? hell you lining yourself up for boresights as they only need a couple of init sinks to completely outmanouvre you. and at range 18" thats 4s to see the tinashi, without any help. then one APTE and the enemy is in your face. 8AD of beams is not enough to slow the enemy capital ships so you need your mini beams there too.

 

[Right Hand of God]

Another quick fix knee jerk reaction from mongoose causing more problems already!

I agree with those that say let anti fighter weapons fire first, but only at fighters, reserve AD if you want to fire that wepon at a capitol ship in the normal turn sequence.

Anti fighter weaponry should include any weapon with the anti fighter trait, which would include mini beams but would discount emines.

The solution for the Minbari problems raised may work in a 5 point raid game, although I am inclined to agree with Burger and I don't think that they will, but any solution should work at all levels of the game. A 5 point raid game is the Tourny standard but my average game is 5 points War, at which level you can easily be swamped by hoardes of fighters, all firing first with no possible defense against it.

I find it remarkable that Mongoose actually thought this would either A:work or B: not cause an out roar of complaints. Some fleets are just now worthless to field against a fleet with even just a reasonable amount of fighters.

By the way, Auxillary craft ignore the stealth of any target within 1 inch not just capitol ships, so kiss your nials good bye as well

 

[JayRaider]

All this talk about the poor Minbari?!! Look at the Vree now! Screwed.

 

[katadder]

apart from if you firing on the nials they still get to dodge, betetr to swamp them with star furies as thies are only +2 anyway. or as my ISA does, nials leading with kotha support

 

[Alexb83]

Strikes me that you're somewhat damned if you do or damned if you don't with Minbari, when limited to 5 Raid, bearing in mind everything that's been discussed.

I was thinking that a Morshin, Leshath and 2 Tigara type ships would offer a good, flexibile force for a tournament. We've all been talking about how fighters are more powerful now - well, there's 11 flights of them right there, with a fleet carrier to boot. Take Teshlans, and you've got beams as well.

What're the alternatives? Go for all Leshath/Tigara mix? Go for Tinashis (cuts your ships right down as Katadder says). Go for Torothas? (They're not the most survivable ships now, are they?). Go for patrol level, and you're down to very limited no.s of fighters.

So what to do? Just hope that there aren't many Narns on the day?

Surely the awesomeness of fighters goes both ways. Why not take as many as you can?