Robotic Drone Controllers and Remote Gunnery

[Terry Mixon]

I'm working on some war bots that can be potentially remotely controlled for coordination just to test an idea. I will almost certainly pay more and give each a brain of its own, but looking at the alternative raised a question in my mind.

The rule says this:

For successful control, both controller and drone must have transceivers installed, with the range of controller’s transceiver being the limiting factor in control distance. In addition to a robotic drone controller, the controlling robot must have an Electronics (remote ops) skill package installed. More advanced robotic drone controllers can command multiple drones but for each drone beyond the first controlled, the effective Electronic (remote ops) skill of the robot decreases by -1. For instance, an advanced drone controller installed in a robot with an Electronics (remote ops) skill package and skill DMs of 3 could control eight independent drones but at a DM-4 for all of them.

So, if I have four warbots and the controller has electronics (remote ops) 3, the control is DM0. The rule says that is only control. Does that mean using a gunnery skill to fire its weapons has that 0 DM or is that other skill not effected? It would be clearer if the rules only has a negative DM and that effected all skill rolls as needed, but this is confusing me.

 

[Geir]

Remote ops is a weird skill. Technically, it's only your remote ops skill that matters for 'control'. The skill you're using (whether its Seafaring (submarine) or Turret (gunnery) ) is never mentioned. Would work better if written so its part of a task chain and so you don't magically learn how to operate a submarine just because it's remote... but then potentially getting a bonus just because you're remote doesn't make a great deal of sense either. Another one of those things that might not withstand too much scrutiny (maybe it should just be a thing that helped remove any negative DMs for being remote - and I'm trying not to think too hard about a certain submarine controlled locally with a game controller...) - but that's not what you asked.

Technically, the remote ops DM would drop to DM+0 or no DM to the remote ops task which lets you 'remotely control' the drone. What happens after that is a little uncertain to me.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Remote ops is a weird skill. Technically, it's only your remote ops skill that matters for 'control'. The skill you're using (whether its Seafaring (submarine) or Turret (gunnery) ) is never mentioned. Would work better if written so its part of a task chain and so you don't magically learn how to operate a submarine just because it's remote... but then potentially getting a bonus just because you're remote doesn't make a great deal of sense either. Another one of those things that might not withstand too much scrutiny (maybe it should just be a thing that helped remove any negative DMs for being remote - and I'm trying not to think too hard about a certain submarine controlled locally with a game controller...) - but that's not what you asked.

Technically, the remote ops DM would drop to DM+0 or no DM to the remote ops task which lets you 'remotely control' the drone. What happens after that is a little uncertain to me.

Yeah, I'm uncertain, too. I may just treat it that any negative DM accrued would be a negative to the skill being remotely operated. That might not be the intent, but it would have a real impact on someone trying to control 8 drones without giving them a plus because they are only running as single drone. As hypothesized above, it would give unearned skills to the operator, like you said, so that's out. Maybe part of a task chain where there are only negative potentials?

It sounds like trying to something while juggling. Add more balls and the task becomes harder, never easier. If you have juggling, you can still do things well enough while juggling, but only up to a point. Thyen the skill in doing the second task degrades. That negatives start having an impact unless you can juggling at some level skill corresponding to the number of balls in the air, but that only carries you so far.

At some point in the future, this will have to be clarified. Somehow.

 

[Arkathan]

Since it is unclarified, try this. Give the control bot leadership and tactics, as well as remote ops.
Give the warbots their own brains and relevant skills.
Use the control bot's remote ops to coordinate their actions, rather than directly controlling them. Chain remote ops and leadership/tactics as needed to give the grunts buffs. Same DM's to remote ops for the number of units in the link.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Since it is unclarified, try this. Give the control bot leadership and tactics, as well as remote ops.
Give the warbots their own brains and relevant skills.
Use the control bot's remote ops to coordinate their actions, rather than directly controlling them. Chain remote ops and leadership/tactics as needed to give the grunts buffs. Same DM's to remote ops for the number of units in the link.

Thanks. That sounds workable, but I'm going to have to think about it to make sure I really understand. My brain is slow this late at night.

 

[Arkathan]

Look at swarm controllers too. Add one in each, plus what's already there, then remote into one and use it's local swarm control, since there isn't really another battle network alternative for robots.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Look at swarm controllers too. Add one in each, plus what's already there, then remote into one and use it's local swarm control, since there isn't really another battle network alternative for robots.

It would still get caught by the limitation of only working over a wireless network, though. That won't help with the ranges I'm looking at.

 

[Arkathan]

Bummer. A shame there isn't an equivalent of Battle Network software that runs over robot transceivers.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Bummer. A shame there isn't an equivalent of Battle Network software that runs over robot transceivers.

Maybe @Geir will add one in the updated Vehicles book or say that there should be in some update of the Robot Handbook in the future that we could use on the sly now.

 

[Condottiere]

Technically speaking, a lot of weapon systems on a warship are remote ops.

If you had to define it, latency, and a separate moving platform, your understanding of that and ability to compensate, allows you to apply the gunner skill for weapon systems onboard that platform.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Never really understood why remote ops was made into a skill for sophonts.
Yes, it is a potential feature of devices, as it is machine-to machine comms, but why does it exist as a sophont skill?
Yes, there is latency issues for real-time operation, but you can bypass that with suitable predictive controlling as, if you know the speed and acceleration, you can predict it's location, within the latency timeframe - perhaps a bit like how contemporary SLR image stabilisation works in counteracting motion blur.

 

[Gavain]

I guess that if you want proper control for multiple robots then the Avatar Controller is the ideal as this has no penalties for multiple avatars.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I guess that if you want proper control for multiple robots then the Avatar Controller is the ideal as this has no penalties for multiple avatars.

Thanks. That would work. I don’t know why I didn’t think of it. Maybe my brain thought it was a sophont controlling the drones. Expensive though. Likely still better just to have individual brains on the warbots.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Remote ops is a weird skill. Technically, it's only your remote ops skill that matters for 'control'. The skill you're using (whether its Seafaring (submarine) or Turret (gunnery) ) is never mentioned. Would work better if written so its part of a task chain and so you don't magically learn how to operate a submarine just because it's remote... but then potentially getting a bonus just because you're remote doesn't make a great deal of sense either. Another one of those things that might not withstand too much scrutiny (maybe it should just be a thing that helped remove any negative DMs for being remote - and I'm trying not to think too hard about a certain submarine controlled locally with a game controller...) - but that's not what you asked.

Technically, the remote ops DM would drop to DM+0 or no DM to the remote ops task which lets you 'remotely control' the drone. What happens after that is a little uncertain to me.

Wouldn't it be easier to simply use the Remote Ops skill as the maximum skill usable through Remote Ops? You still use whichever skill is relevant, but the Remote Ops skill acts as a cap on how high of a bonus that you can use.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Wouldn't it be easier to simply use the Remote Ops skill as the maximum skill usable through Remote Ops? You still use whichever skill is relevant, but the Remote Ops skill acts as a cap on how high of a bonus that you can use.

Sure, but what do the negative DMs affect then? It's only listed for remote ops itself. I'm already going to use individual robotic brains, but it just seems like this rule is ripe for clarification and fixing.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Sure, but what do the negative DMs affect then? It's only listed for remote ops itself. I'm already going to use individual robotic brains, but it just seems like this rule is ripe for clarification and fixing.

Don't use them. They are a dumb idea. With a basic drone controller, you can control one drone. With more advanced drone controllers, you can control more than one. To Me, this would indicate that the reason you can control more drones is because of the technology and not your ability. So, as far as I am concerned, there should be no penalty.

Edit- I suppose you could use 2 basic drone controllers and split your actions and take the penalty, allowing you to take penalties for controlling more than one drone, but only if you want to use more than one drone controller at once.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Don't use them. They are a dumb idea. With a basic drone controller, you can control one drone. With more advanced drone controllers, you can control more than one. To Me, this would indicate that the reason you can control more drones is because of the technology and not your ability. So, as far as I am concerned, there should be no penalty.

Edit- I suppose you could use 2 basic drone controllers and split your actions and take the penalty, allowing you to take penalties for controlling more than one drone, but only if you want to use more than one drone controller at once.

If I use advanced robotic brains, they aren't drones. They can act, follow instructions, use their own skills, and follow predetermined strategy. Remote control just seems like a headache. It should be easier, but the rules make it problematic.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Since it is unclarified, try this. Give the control bot leadership and tactics, as well as remote ops.
Give the warbots their own brains and relevant skills.
Use the control bot's remote ops to coordinate their actions, rather than directly controlling them. Chain remote ops and leadership/tactics as needed to give the grunts buffs. Same DM's to remote ops for the number of units in the link.

Now that my brain is working again, if going that route, I could just have the human military officers do that via transceiver. That's basically what I'm looking at since the skill is kind of unhelpful. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[tytalan]

I’m going to suggest you read the book series Warbots at least the first few.

The way I see Remote Opts with a Robot is you can either give multiple robots commands (like designating a target or targets for a group) in which case the robots use their own skill levels or directly control them using your own skill with the Remote Opts modifiers being applied to the skill your using. The primary time you’d do a Remote Opts check is when actually initiating a connection to the Robots in a battlefield environment (overcoming Jamming and other communication obstacles). Another way would be to use Remote Opts to command a group of Robots to follow the lead of a specific Robot than to directly control that individual Robot. This with require a multiple Remote Opts check (with the negative for the number of robots) to give the order to follow the designated Robot than using your own skills with your Remote Opts skill as a limiter (if your remote opts was a 2 than you would be limited to that skill level even if your gunnery was a 4) when using the command robot. This has the benefit of giving you more direct command of your units. This allows a whole company of Robot infantry to be deployed with a limited number of actual living beings in control (probably in some sort of bunker or heavily armored mobile command center) who are well back from the front lines. Say a Captain, 2 lieutenants, 3 sergeants and possibly 6 PFCs/Corp allowing you heavily trained and experienced accesses to be semi safe.

In Air/space combat you have a command fighter with a pilot and a Remote Opts officer, the pilot flys and fights the command fighter while the RO controls a group of drones fighters that support and protect the command fighter. In this case the command fighter acts designated unit with the RO giving additional control (like weapon choices and such). The RO would also be in control of the groups EW systems. This system allows for a force multiplier since the drones are considerably smaller than an actual fighter.

In all of these cases you have a Robot brain your working with if the remote device is a pure drone than not only would your Remote Opts act as a limiter on any skill you use, you would also have the multiple remote’s negative stacked on. This is why drone combat tends to be one drone per operator.

In any case various cyberwear can enhance these capabilities. also this works better in the 2300 universe that it does in Charted Space, this is because there are both some setting elements that support this and the lack of a couple of technologies that are in the Charted Space universe.

So to sum things up you do a Remote Opts check to be able to command/control your Drone/Robot with the multiple remote’s modifier. It also acts as both a limiter and a modifier when trying to directly control a Robot(s)/Drone(s).

One of these day’s I’m going to sit down and write up a Drone/Robot warfare book.

 

[tytalan]

So, if I have four warbots and the controller has electronics (remote ops) 3, the control is DM0. The rule says that is only control. Does that mean using a gunnery skill to fire its weapons has that 0 DM or is that other skill not effected? It would be clearer if the rules only has a negative DM and that effected all skill rolls as needed, but this is confusing me.

Your gunnery skill would be limited to your effective remote ops skill so in this case no matter what your gunnery was you would be running at a gunnery of 0. This is why drone use is so very limited while Robots are much more practical. Using your own example and a gunnery skill of 3 if you were controlling 1 drone you would be able to use your gunnery of 3, 2 drones drops it to 2, 3 to 1, and 4 to zero. If you don’t have a gunnery skill then you would take the unskilled disadvantage. The same goes for piloting checks tho I would allow a players to take a remote piloting/vehicle skill, now Autopilot will take care of much of these checks.