2300 questions

Sigtrygg here’s the problem you and your gear head buddy’s are not the majority of Traveller players and you don’t make money chasing away the majority of your costumer base to satisfy a small but loud minority. There obviously a majority of players that don’t want complex design rules otherwise books like Traders and Gunboats, Small Craft and Adventure Class ships wouldn’t sell as well as they obviously are. Geir was right in still using the chassis system for the VH because it’s something that works, is not a band aid (if it were it wouldn’t work) and is usable and marketable to the majority of new and old Traveller players. Which your desired new FF&S would not be.
 
Funny all those things can be said about 4ed but it flopped
Did it really? or was it that the 3ed crowd didn't need the change forced upon them, and a lot moved to Pathfinder (which is a lot more complex than 4th ed)
none of which are top seller while the top three are PF2, Call of Cthulhu and 5ed. In fact they are well into the low end. Maybe come up with games that are at least in the top 20
You really need to stick to the point of discussion, I am not claiming them to be the best sellers, just that modern games are not always as simple as you propose.
never once did I say not to have no construction rule saying this is just disingenuous. There’s a huge difference between having construction rules that forces you to either be experienced in calculus or use a spreadsheet (ie FF&S) which Mongoose is not going to invest money into and having a simple robust construction rule set that everyone (even none gear heads) can use.
I never said you did. It is an experiment. I wanted to know your opinion.
Could you point me to where in FF&S calculus is required. I don't recall having to do any decentration or integration when using the book, or do you mean algebra?
I never use spreadsheets for any design sequences.
Let’s try a experiment your create a third party extra complex construction rule set and price it at comparable price and see how many you sell( here’s a hint it’s been done before look up leading edge games Phoenix Command it’s didn’t last long even with some serious licenses )
Lol Phoenix Command wasn't a universal equipment design system, it was mostly look up tables. lots and lots of look up tables.
Also here’s another clue FF&S wasn’t written before TNE was released.
It was.
I bought the deluxe edition of TNE as a boxed set. It had the core rulebook and FF&S in the box. It was designed alongside the maine rule book so that the equipment could be designed using the technical architecture. There were some obvious differences in the pre-release version, not to mention two lots of errata and completely redone design sequences in Challenge, but it was a lot more consistent than Mongoose has been to date.
 
Sigtrygg here’s the problem you and your gear head buddy’s are not the majority of Traveller players and you don’t make money chasing away the majority of your costumer base to satisfy a small but loud minority.
The gearhead books will be bought by gearheads. Authors should be required to stick with the gearhead books rather than invent new subsystems that cause inconsistency. I don't see how anyone would be driven away, no one is going to insist you buy the design sequence books.
There obviously a majority of players that don’t want complex design rules otherwise books like Traders and Gunboats, Small Craft and Adventure Class ships wouldn’t sell as well as they obviously are.
What is happening right now with Traders and Gunboars? Gearheads are going through ship by ship checking the designs are correct and providing feedback which will improve the eventual print release.
Geir was right in still using the chassis system for the VH because it’s something that works, is not a band aid (if it were it wouldn’t work) and is usable and marketable to the majority of new and old Traveller players. Which your desired new FF&S would not be.
You don't appear to be able to grasp this. The chassis system is a kludge, a fudge, an oversimplification. if there was a layer below it that allows designers to tailor the chassis system before it makes it to people like you who only want "good enough" or "simple". A technical architecture book would allow for power trains, transmissions and the like that collectively become the "chassis"
You can stick with bolting a few spaces together to make a vehicle, why deny those of us that want it a more detailed design sequence?
 
The gearhead books will be bought by gearheads. Authors should be required to stick with the gearhead books rather than invent new subsystems that cause inconsistency. I don't see how anyone would be driven away, no one is going to insist you buy the design sequence books.
And Mongoose will take a huge loss on a book that they sell less than a Quarter of the print run. Also it will discourage those who are not gear heads by making a construction rule set that they are uncomfortable using. But than you don’t care about having a larger play base since you gear heads are the only ones that matter.
You don't appear to be able to grasp this. The chassis system is a kludge, a fudge, an oversimplification. if there was a layer below it that allows designers to tailor the chassis system before it makes it to people like you who only want "good enough" or "simple". A technical architecture book would allow for power trains, transmissions and the like that collectively become the "chassis"
You can stick with bolting a few spaces together to make a vehicle, why deny those of us that want it a more detailed design sequence?
Because by doing it your way you force the majority that don’t want to be force to be gear heads to either accept what the gear head minority wants or to not design anything. But than again you think only the gear heads matter.
 
It's part of the ecosystem.

Star Wars have new ship designs, usually based on the franchise graphics, and drawn up by fans.

New spacecraft designs in Traveller would be based on High Guard mechanics, and if you assume Twenty Three Hundred Anno Domini is a legitimate off shoot, though mutated, then if the player base and demand is large enough, should get it's own spin off.

Though, currently, I'm viewing it as somewhat better than Vehicles.
 
Sigtrygg here are some of the reviews of FF&S and the main reason that it’s not the direction most players want to go “In the January 1998 edition of Dragon (Issue #243), Rick Swan acknowledged that Travellerhad always been fuelled by "hard science", but even so, he confessed "to being baffled by Fire, Fusion & Steel, a supplement so dense with numbers that it might as well be written in Chinese... it more closely resembles a physics text for precocious grad students." Swan concluded by giving the book an average rating of 3 stars out of 6, saying "For those of us who still count on our fingers, Fire, Fusion & Steel is about as appealing as a rat in our lunch box." most players don’t want this so maybe consider the desires of the majority instead of your gear head minority
 
And Mongoose will take a huge loss on a book that they sell less than a Quarter of the print run.
Now you are just making stuff up, you have no idea how well it would sell.
Also it will discourage those who are not gear heads by making a construction rule set that they are uncomfortable using. But than you don’t care about having a larger play base since you gear heads are the only ones that matter.
They don't have to use it, they buy things like T&G or 101 vehicles. You have no idea who I care about.
Because by doing it your way you force the majority that don’t want to be force to be gear heads to either accept what the gear head minority wants or to not design anything. But than again you think only the gear heads matter.
If you are not a gearhead why do you want to design stuff?
 
Sigtrygg here are some of the reviews of FF&S and the main reason that it’s not the direction most players want to go “In the January 1998 edition of Dragon (Issue #243), Rick Swan acknowledged that Travellerhad always been fuelled by "hard science", but even so, he confessed "to being baffled by Fire, Fusion & Steel, a supplement so dense with numbers that it might as well be written in Chinese...
Just proves he can't do math. I can, so can many others.
it more closely resembles a physics text for precocious grad students." Swan concluded by giving the book an average rating of 3 stars out of 6, saying "For those of us who still count on our fingers, Fire, Fusion & Steel is about as appealing as a rat in our lunch box." most players don’t want this so maybe consider the desires of the majority instead of your gear head minority
So one review by someone so intellectually challenged they can't do the math and is willing to troll the Traveller gearhead community.

I'll stick with the opinion of people who know a bit more basic math. How about a review of someone who can do addy ups and take aways?

Lets look at drive thru:

"I find this wonderful...not perfect, but wonderful." Daryl 4/5
"This is a Traveller classic. If you like design sequences, this book is a great choice." Michael 4/5

And now T4 FF&S
"more good stuff . mind candy personal reference material" daniel 4/5
"This is indeed a book designed for those who would like to dessign ships with the freedom that comes from a universal vehicle generator... I guess all I have to say is that this is pretty lightweight material but it is a unified, organized system. One of the best features about this book is the presence of equations throughout the text." Richard 5/5
slightly more negative
"3 for the overall product, +1 for the content, and –2 for the Imperial Sun graphic/watermark interfering with text selection" John 4/5 reduced to 2/5 due to formatting errors.
 
They don't have to use it, they buy things like T&G or 101 vehicles. You have no idea who I care about.
Funny I said the same about mongoose doing a Foreven sector book and wow seem they don’t agree with your statement. And this state Right here show you don’t care about the none gear heads since you’re all about making it so they can’t make their own ships.
Now you are just making stuff up, you have no idea how well it would sell.
no I’m going by the cost of printing the books and historical sales of such a book.
If you are not a gearhead why do you want to design stuff?
I’m not a gear head but I like to design stuff and there are times I need to. You don’t have to be a gear head to want to use a design system especially if that system is made accessible for easy use for everyone. But I guess according to you only gear heads are allowed to use a design system for Traveller. Your words! Way to gatekeep and chase people away from Traveller. I’m done with you don’t bother to reply I already know you’ll deny your own words.
 
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Funny I said the same about mongoose doing a Foreven sector book and wow seem they don’t agree with your statement.
I'm sorry, it is late, I am tired and I have no idea what you are going on about at all now. In what way is the Foreven sector being designated a referee preserve relevant?
And this state Right here show you don’t care about the none gear heads since you’re all about making it so they can’t make their own ships.
Again, you haven't a ducking clue about who or what I care about. If non gearheads want to make their own ships they can get the design books. If they don't want to design their own ships they don't have to. It is rather condescending to suggest that most people are too thick to cope with double entry book keeping.
no I’m going by the cost of printing the books and historical sales of such a book.
I'm impressed that you have such data, care to share or have you not got round to plucking it out of thin air yet?
I’m not a gear head but I like to design stuff and there are times I need to.
But only if the design system is simple enough for you.
You don’t have to be a gear head to want to use a design system especially if that system is made accessible for easy use for everyone.
Which it can be, but only if gearheads are allowed to design the system that underpins it, otherwise you get the hot mess that is the inconsistency and mutually exclusive ship - robot - vehicle - weapon design systems that exist in Mongoose now.
 
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How big is a print run? The 2012 edition of 2300AD was exceptional in that it went over 1,000 physical copies. The problem was that the rest of the products sold much less well. GDW used to sell 5 supplements per core rules set, and that was the money maker. Here, it looks less. Two years ago I looked at the available PDF sales via DTRPG:

1730104345665.jpeg

Two years later, the 2nd edition PDF is still gold, the AEH still electrum, SotF is now electrum, TfFL is now silver. The two new products, Vehicles of the Frontier and Project Bayern are both silver.

This gives you a rough sales estimate. You expect to ship a few hundred PDF's of a supplement. The number of physical books is much lower. There were some pictures of the deliveries of the printed copies put out by Mongoose, and I estimated the boxed set at about 100 physical copies and the AEH and VotF at 50 physical copies each.

Note that almost everything put out by Colin recently is "gearhead" stuff. The general consensus is it's sub-par gearhead stuff. It's selling a few hundred PDF's and a few dozen printed books per product by the looks of things.

What is needed is not more gearhead stuff, or more sourcebooks; it is honest new adventures that people can play. I have seen some previewed writing for Invasion from a while back, and I am honestly fearful for the product unless an editor who knows 2300AD does a major rewrite...
 
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Do you recall where the 0.15 is mentioned? It should really be errata in Star Cruiser.
Searching the pdfs is a pain because the scans are crap and I can no longer read my original books.

In a table in the ref section of 2nd edition:

1730110710390.png

I also wonder what the limits were on governments using fission and fusion power plants - would they just use a 300MW power plant and stutterwarp and then build that largest colony ship possible with a loaded mass that gives a warp efficiency of 0.2 (to allow a safety factor :))

Absolutely doable. In fact I made with a 15 MW fission plant, and noted that fusion ships would carry 10 times as much:

French Ville (City) class Nuclear Modular Carrier
Original date of design: 2251
First example laid down: 2252
First example completed: 2254
Fleets in service: France (mainly French government registry)

Number in service: ca. 50, named after French cities (Ville de Maestricht, Ville de Eindhoven, Ville de Bonn, Ville de Gand, Ville de Geneve etc.)

The Metal class modular carrier was a huge success, but the conventional MHD turbine meant the vessel had to make halts at essentially every outpost or colony on her route. This was fine for exports from Tirane, but exports from the French Arm were not as efficient as possible. Thus a nuclear powered vessel was desirable.

The question was whether to make the vessel faster or carry more. Whilst for some goods, faster delivery was an advantage, for ore and grain, there was no advantage. A deep load speed of 0.4 was acceptable, that being the deep load speed of a Metal. Given this speed, 432 standard modules of ore or grain could be carried, with nearly a million tons of deadweight. The modules have been designed to stack in rings of 9, and upto 48 rings were thus carried in the aft stack.

Ville ‘s were designed to go from Earth to BCV-4, a logistical hub, and return. A round trip, carrying less dense manufactured goods on the outbound leg, and deep loaded with grain and ore on the return leg, takes around six or seven months, and so a hamster wheel spin habitat was installed. Loading and unloading is relatively quick, due to the modular system. At the logistics centres at both ends, modules are prepared and loaded onto the stack by both the manipulators at the logistics centres, and the pair of grabbers carried. The grabbers also facilitate cargo manipulation outside ports.

From BCV-4, modules for further up-arm are transferred to smaller vessels, and modules containing goods from further up-arm are loaded.

With not quite a million tons of deadweight, the Ville is now regarded as a relatively small modular carrier, and the earliest ships are being retired at the end of their reactor lives, and the lead vessel, the Ville de Maestricht, was officially retired in 2299. The Ville de Eindhoven, Ville de Bonn and Ville de Gand are due to decommission in 2300. The latest ships being built have fusion reactors and can carry 10 million tons of deadweight.

Notes: In combat, when hit the shot may hit the “tug” or the stack. If the shot is from the forward aspect, it automatically hits the tug, and for the aft, it automatically hits the stack. For lateral fire, role d10, on a role of 10 it hits the tug, and for all others it hits the stack. Stack hits destroy one module and its’ cargo.

Crew: 29 (10 bridge, 14 engineers, 4 cargo specialists/ grabber operators and a medic)
Performance Characteristics
Warp Efficiency: 0.40 deep load (432 modules with sg3 ore/grain), 0.82 light load (432 modules with sg0.3 manufactured goods), 1.52 unloaded (432 empty modules) and 3.58 bare (no modules)
Power Plant: 15 MW fission
Fuel: nil (incidental fuel carried for the grabbers)
Range 7.7 ly
Mass: 1,350 tons bare, 17,550 tons empty
Cargo Capacity: 742.5 m3 per module (upto 432 carried)
Comfort: 0
Life Support: 30 for 180 days
Construction Cost: MLv28.19 bare (i.e. exclusive of modules and grabbers)
Hangars: for 2 15m3 grabbers (launch 1 per 3 turns)

Ship Status Sheet
Movement: 1 (loaded)
Screens: nil
Radiated Signature: 5
Reflected Signature: lateral = 14, radial = 6 (with 432 modules)
Profile: lateral = +4, radial = 0
Targeting Computer: 0
Armour: 0
Hull hits: main “tug” 6/3/2
Power plant hits: 20/5
Armament: none
 
Thanks for that, would never have found it otherwise :)

That is an example of ship designs that should be in the setting.

So with a 300MW power plant and drive...
 
Thanks for that, would never have found it otherwise :)

That is an example of ship designs that should be in the setting.

So with a 300MW power plant and drive...

20 million metric tons of deadweight at ca. warp 0.4. 80 million at 0.2.

Current global deadweight for wet ships is 2.25 billion tons. These ships could be significant...
 
How big is a print run? The 2012 edition of 2300AD was exceptional in that it went over 1,000 physical copies. The problem was that the rest of the products sold much less well. GDW used to sell 5 supplements per core rules set, and that was the money maker. Here, it looks less. Two years ago I looked at the available PDF sales via DTRPG:

View attachment 2611

Two years later, the 2nd edition PDF is still gold, the AEH still electrum, SotF is now electrum, TfFL is now silver. The two new products, Vehicles of the Frontier and Project Bayern are both silver.

This gives you a rough sales estimate. You expect to ship a few hundred PDF's of a supplement. The number of physical books is much lower. There were some pictures of the deliveries of the printed copies put out by Mongoose, and I estimated the boxed set at about 100 physical copies and the AEH and VotF at 50 physical copies each.

Note that almost everything put out by Colin recently is "gearhead" stuff. The general consensus is it's sub-par gearhead stuff. It's selling a few hundred PDF's and a few dozen printed books per product by the looks of things.

What is needed is not more gearhead stuff, or more sourcebooks; it is honest new adventures that people can play. I have seen some previewed writing for Invasion from a while back, and I am honestly fearful for the product unless an editor who knows 2300AD does a major rewrite...
Your most likely under estimating physical copy sales by a large margin especially since the smallest viable print run is a few thousand and since Drivethrurpg is not necessary a good metric, with mongoose giving free PDFs with physical sales and mongoose price being the same. There’s also the fact that most of the 2300 players are older and in general prefer physical copies. But I definitely agree that we need a major editing pass and not a bunch of more gearhead stuff.

It doesn’t help that invasion has been on the TBA list for a couple of years. What we need are campaigns and updating things. Invasion for example should be done up in the Pirate of Drinax style. A campaign book, a military book and possible a drone/robot design book (this would make sense and give the change to fix a few things). Done right invasion could really be set up for a more normal TTRPG group size. A merc company with a few PC and nero controlled drone/robots as the actual ground force (ie Warbots book series).

But more than anything I think we need new blood writing the game, writers that are not afraid/unwilling to update things and possibly include some needed changes to the setting. The Goal should be to update the setting while keeping the flavor and not stressing over just rewriting the pass (the complaint that various ships have different weaponry are one of the things holding the game back). Now that mongoose actually owns the game they need to make it theirs like they have done with charted space.
 
Thanks for that, would never have found it otherwise :)

That is an example of ship designs that should be in the setting.

So with a 300MW power plant and drive...

PS: Note that I deliberately used cities that are, in 2300AD, part of France but currently aren't (i.e. the ex-Dutch and German Rhineland and Switzerland). France's borders were expanded.
 
I wonder if France in 2300AD would have re-invested in its other colonies in North America, Central America, Africa, Asia...
 
Usually, a geostrategic issue.

If it's to secure buffer states, maybe.

If it's resource acquisition, it must be cheaper on the Final Frontier.
 
I wonder if France in 2300AD would have re-invested in its other colonies in North America, Central America, Africa, Asia...

France did expand into Africa. France is both the centre of the European Community (essentially the pre-Maastricht EEC) and of the French Commercial Union. Large parts of Africa came under French domination and eventually each African territory became a department.

However, a department is a relatively small body, equivalent to a county. In the old African colonies, departments were created for French citizens living in the African colonies. Hence these departments had massively more people than metropolitan departments, but only the fraction of the population who were citizens could vote. Colonial subjects could become citizens by assimilation. Thus the French African colonies had two legal classes; citizens (both settlers and assimilated natives) and associates (i.e. non-citizen natives).
 
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