Arma: Fighters:Anti-Fighter:

[Wulf Corbett]

Shoot them before they get too close for comfort, with plenty of AD (which Neutron cannons have) then when they get within 4 inches, take it on the nose (with -1 stealth) and shred them with your minibeams.

And, of course, you can also use Supporting fighters. You can only stop one for one, but with Nials, you're pretty much guaranteed a win...

Wulf

 

[Burger]

In fairness, most Minbari ships have good coverage, 18 inch max range minibeams. How many fighters can move from outside 18 inches to within 1 inch range in one turn (without afterburners)?

Shoot them before they get too close for comfort, with plenty of AD (which Neutron cannons have) then when they get within 4 inches, take it on the nose (with -1 stealth) and shred them with your minibeams.

Mini-beams are only anti-fighter within 4". The probability of shooting down fighters outside that range, is pretty low.
Neutron cannons are for capital ships, you're saying I should put ALL my firepower into anti-fighter defences? Sorry but if I told a Prefect to shoot some fighters with his battle lasers what would the answer be? "Screw you bonehead!"

And, of course, you can also use Supporting fighters. You can only stop one for one, but with Nials, you're pretty much guaranteed a win...

As I said previously, how many Nials is it realistic to field? Without a Morshin, not more than 5; in a normal 5pt Raid fleet, about 3 maximum. Compared to most other fleets who can buy 8 flights and a Skirmish ship, for 1 raid point.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Mini-beams are only anti-fighter within 4". The probability of shooting down fighters outside that range, is pretty low.

Depends. The heaviest fighters are the easiest to hit.

As I said previously, how many Nials is it realistic to field?

Prioritise. You've got the best fighters in the game, you'll win most of your fights, your weaponry is excellent in ship-killing, it's damn fast, it's got Stealth, what are you complaining about?

Wulf

 

[Alexb83]

My bad, fusion cannons. Silly words.

I know they're only AF within 4 inches, but outside 4 inches you have a reasonable chance to put at least 6 hits on a squadron (or spreading your fire a bit). 1s do pop up with alarming regularity.

When you consider there are Minbari ships specifically designed for anti-fighter duty, outfitted with fusion cannons cannons, with 4-6 dice in every arc, I'd be darn sure I made them use those weapons as intended. Throw dice at them at long range, take out 1 or 2 if you're lucky. If they close to within 4, take them apart (1 dice each on up to 6 squads).

If you've lost ships to fighters, you need to treat them as a threat equal to or greater than the capital ships lurking in the distance. I'd throw every dice I had at them, and rely on stealth to keep the capital ships missing, until the fighters were gone.

 

[Alexb83]

Shoot them before they get too close for comfort, with plenty of AD (which Neutron cannons have) then when they get within 4 inches, take it on the nose (with -1 stealth) and shred them with your minibeams.

And, of course, you can also use Supporting fighters. You can only stop one for one, but with Nials, you're pretty much guaranteed a win...

Wulf

Yes, as I mentioned previously, Minbari ships tend to have at least a few flights of auxiliaries available at each PL (Tigara adds spares, morshin is just great, Sharlin equally so). Keep them in support, as far as I see, supporting craft still get to fire before the 'fighters first' rule. And Nials are just incredibly good at holding things in dogfights.

 

[Burger]

rely on stealth to keep the capital ships missing, until the fighters were gone.

Hah, thats a joke. Ka'Toc gets within 8 inches in 2 turns using APTE, a scout redices stealth on a 4+... suddenly my stealth goes from 4+ to "anything but a 1". Really reliable.

Minbari tourney fleets really got a kick in the teeth. Maybe they are better in campaigns where different PL battles are fought, but like I said, mine are back in the drawer as far as tourneys go.

 

[H]

rely on stealth to keep the capital ships missing, until the fighters were gone.

Hah, thats a joke. Ka'Toc gets within 8 inches in 2 turns using APTE, a scout redices stealth on a 4+... suddenly my stealth goes from 4+ to "anything but a 1". Really reliable.

you would think so....

Wednesday evening stealth rolls for second round...

1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3

 

[Burger]

you would think so....

Wednesday evening stealth rolls for second round...

1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3

Hehe yeah we've all had days like that... but I can hardly rely on that happening in every game can I??

 

[Voronesh]

But basically Minbari went back to SFOS stats for all they nice and goody damage and crew.

Which should balance the stealth nerf kinda.

And that fighters ignore stealth up close is an improvement. It just doesnt make sense that you cannot hit something thats a hundred meters away and a klick long. The broad side of a barn is small compared to that.

THough the combination of fighters fire first and stealth ignore is hurting. But then most people do not like the fighters fire first ruling.

 

[Burger]

THough the combination of fighters fire first and stealth ignore is hurting. But then most people do not like the fighters fire first ruling.

At least "most people" still have their dodge/interceptors/high hull value/adaptive armour. Fighters don't ignore other races main defences, why do they ignore Minbari's?

 

[Voronesh]

Well.

Then again me means Narn. So i grin at high tech defense anyway.

And yes interceptors are nice, until you meet beams. GEG and AA are currently the only defense system not ignorable by a weapon or tactic.

Stealth is all good and well, until you smack em at close range with low tech short ranged stuff.......

 

[Alexb83]

Minbari fighters tend to ignore most other races' main defences (mini beam armament, no?).

Look at it this way - Minbari have some of the best ships in the game, and most of the best weapons. They certainly have the best fighters in the game, bar none. If you use your fighters and your guns wisely, they should never get close enough to you to even negate your stealth. Tie them up in dogfights, take them apart with all those fusion cannon dice.

The only situations I can see where you're in serious trouble are from a Poseidon rushing you with 16 furies. 2 Morshins should win that sort of engagement every time. You outrange him, you outnumber him with fighters (16 nials, 2 flyers vs. 16 starfuries). He's toast.

 

[Voronesh]

Actually Minbari fighter fusion cannons miss the mini beam goodyness.

But yes Hyperions always wonder why their hightech interceptors get no work at all against Minbari.

 

[katadder]

the 1st suggestion for fighter fixes abuot AF weapons firing 1st just wouldnt work. if you do that you may as well put fighters back to firing last cos its not often anyone fired anything but AF weapons at fighters. if these weapons fire 1st then fighters are back to being fodder.

 

[Alexb83]

Actually Minbari fighter fusion cannons miss the mini beam goodyness.

But yes Hyperions always wonder why their hightech interceptors get no work at all against Minbari.

Well, that sucks. They're mini-beams by definition. I'd suggest that as a rule change, straight away. Light fusion cannons = AP, Minibeam

 

[Burger]

Minbari have some of the best ships in the game, and most of the best weapons. They certainly have the best fighters in the game, bar none.

Sure, 1 on 1, Minbari have one of the best fighters in the game.

Per patrol point, Minbari have the worst fighters in the game, because they only get 1 flight per wing. I'd rather have 3 Starfuries than 1 Nial, 6 Kotha than 1 Nial, 5 Starsnake than 1 Nial... need I continue? Sure taking a Morshin will give me 8, but thats 2 Raid points, and the ship itself is pretty useless apart from Fleet Carrier. Its not really practical for a tourney, Narn emines will just wipe out the fighters and the (hull 4) carrier in no time.

As for best weapons, yeah sure, but we pay for it with reduced AD. Primus vs. Tinashi: Primus has 6AD, Tinashi has 4AD precise. I'd say the Primus is better, or at best they are equal. I'd swap Precise for 50% extra AD.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Minbari fighters tend to ignore most other races' main defences (mini beam armament, no?).

No.

Wulf

 

[katadder]

the whitestars fighter has overtakent the nial as best but for worst value as at least you get 2 nials for a whitestar fighter who come in at one per skirmish point.

 

[Burger]

the whitestars fighter has overtakent the nial as best but for worst value as at least you get 2 nials for a whitestar fighter who come in at one per skirmish point.

Oh yeah, you're right, WS fighters are the only one that is worse bang for buck than Nials. I'll never be buying ANY of them, except the free ones with a WS Carrier. I can get a proper White Star for the RR cost of 1.5 fighters!

IMO... WS Fighter should be patrol, 1 flight per wing. Nial and Tishat should be 2 flights per wing.

 

[Alexb83]

Well, Narn are going to clean house in tourneys against fighter heavy fleets. So a Morshin would be a bad idea against Narn... but against most others? I guess you just have to take it on balance of how often you're going to go up against Narn, or how often you're going to go up against opponents who've traded down for lots of patrol points. I'm still very tempted to go with a Morshin/3 raid fleet.

Also, can a Morshin kept in hyperspace deploy its fighters before it enters the game? That would nicely sidestep any E-mines.

As for Primus vs. Tinashi - the Primus will only even be able to shoot at the Tinashi in 2 of every 6 turns. The Tinashi on the other hand will hit him every turn. Also, when they close range to 18, the Tinashi will have 12 dice against 6. I wasn't just talking about the main beam armament - Minbari have arguably the best secondary guns out there (fusion cannons).