Imperial Law and Governance

[travchao999]

So, I'm just still slightly confused by some intricacies with imperial law and governance. (Third Imperium)

So how is imperial law enforced, since many of the planets that are technically under the imperium are pretty much independent, never really being in constant contact with the core of the empire. And the imperium can't really have agents or law enforcement everywhere. Do they just rely on the governor of the planet to adhere to imperial law?

Speaking of the imperium, so much of the systems are pretty independent, yeah, so does the imperium allow any sort of government, as long as they pay their federal taxes or whatever? And when a planet is granted as a fief to a noble, what government do they set up? Any? Even like a democracy? Constitutional Monarchy?

Lastly, and this is a more abstract question, but I never really got the difference between trade routes and communication routes in sectors/subsectors. The book makes them sound the same.

Thanks,
Travchao

 

[GypsyComet]

how is imperial law enforced, since many of the planets that are technically under the imperium are pretty much independent, never really being in constant contact with the core of the empire. And the imperium can't really have agents or law enforcement everywhere. Do they just rely on the governor of the planet to adhere to imperial law?

Imperial Law, with a couple of exceptions, does not apply to planetary surfaces and governments. Planets are Members, not Subjects.
-The Imperium reserves the use of WM&EDs (Weapons of Mass & Environmental Destruction) for itself. The use of nuclear weaponry by anyone else is an Imperial crime.
-Slavery is illegal in most forms, though many governments cloak it in other legal terms and get away with it.
-Murder is illegal, and if committed away from a planet's sphere of influence will be investigated, tried, and punished by Imperial agents.
-The practice of Psionics is a grey area, but may get you shot in any case.
-Artificial beings cannot be Imperial Citizens. Opinions on genetically engineered sophonts (Nexxies, Jonkereen, and a few others) vary, but usually land on the side of being citizens.
-Obstruction of Imperial trade is frowned upon, with the caveat that worlds can decide what imports are legal vs illegal.

Speaking of the imperium, so much of the systems are pretty independent, yeah, so does the imperium allow any sort of government, as long as they pay their federal taxes or whatever? And when a planet is granted as a fief to a noble, what government do they set up? Any? Even like a democracy? Constitutional Monarchy?

A couple of things here.
The answer to the first question is "Yes", because the Imperium has Member Worlds, not Subject Worlds.
Noble fiefs are almost never the whole planet, or even very much of one. When a planet joins the Imperium, it cedes a portion of its surface to the Imperium. That portion is where the starport will be built, and is also where noble fiefs associated with that world will be located. How much territory a noble is given control over is dependent on rank, but even Subsector Dukes are only given control over something about the size of Europe.
An Imperial Noble is not part of the world's government by default, and has no direct control over what sort of government that is. His job is to make the world a productive member of the Imperium.

Lastly, and this is a more abstract question, but I never really got the difference between trade routes and communication routes in sectors/subsectors. The book makes them sound the same.

Often they are. The communications routes tend to connect big trading partners.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Imperial Law, with a couple of exceptions, does not apply to planetary surfaces and governments.

-Murder is illegal, and if committed away from a planet's sphere of influence will be investigated, tried, and punished by Imperial agents.

see underlined

Some acts are considered to be major crimes wherever
they are committed. Piracy, rape, murder and treason against the
Imperium are all examples of Imperial felonies. Even where a world
government has jurisdiction but does not prohibit these acts, local
law enforcement is required to assist Ministry of Justice personnel
in apprehending the perpetrators.

So how is imperial law enforced

Try to be more specific. For a vanilla answer, by any and all means at it's disposal up to Military force.

, since many of the planets that are technically under the imperium are pretty much independent, never really being in constant contact with the core of the empire. And the imperium can't really have agents or law enforcement everywhere. Do they just rely on the governor of the planet to adhere to imperial law?

My own perspective:
Most worlds will have some Imperial presence but yes, in general, they do leave it up to a world to police itself. If word gets out that a government is not taking care of their own back yard then steps would be taken. Diplomatic first, I'd think. Independent worlds can still have their government ousted, by force if necessary, if they are unwilling to do what's expected.

Speaking of the imperium, so much of the systems are pretty independent, yeah, so does the imperium allow any sort of government, as long as they pay their federal taxes or whatever?

In general, yes. See the government table on page 174

And when a planet is granted as a fief to a noble, what government do they set up?

Not many new planets forming. Unless something like above, a government is ousted, there wouldn't be worlds to grant in the 3I.

Lastly, and this is a more abstract question, but I never really got the difference between trade routes and communication routes in sectors/subsectors. The book makes them sound the same.

Keep in mind communication is carried by ships.

Information and goods both move in much the same manner. They are carried along the major trade routes between the larger ports then spread out to worlds along ‘feeder’ routes,

Page 169 of the core rules discusses both types of routes. Trade can occur with and between worlds that are not on trade routes, so can communication. Not sure of any game mechanics based on routes, perhaps in one of the supplements?

 

[travchao999]

I think my main confusion is due to the fact that I did not realize that the Imperium was that much of a federation. I thought it was the more direct empire, like the space empire in, for example, Dune. But it sounds like more of, say, a more aggressive United Federation of Worlds, something that I wish was explained more in the core book (like the introduction to Mark Miller's Traveller, although I don't remember what that one said, only that I'm pretty sure it explained about the Imperium). It might be that I haven't gotten to the Imperium section in the library data yet, and I probably should have looked there first, but I like asking questions for some reason.

Also, the Imperial Ministry of Justice might be what I was looking for. They assist a planet's forces in solving crimes, and also probably acting as a watchdog for the Imperium, making sure the planet doesn't, like, use nukes on a planet or start a prolonged war with another member planet.

Also, regarding fiefs, its said several times in the book that many Archdukes, dukes and barons are granted a fief of land or a planet (for dukes). For example, even though its a bad example, the Emperor is the Archduke of Sylea, which is his fief.

And, because why not, here's another abstract question, that the books that I have are all kinda fuzzy about. Where does the boundary lie between ship weapons that civilian ships can have and buy, and military grade weapons? It's something that I find a lot of space-type games seem to have weird logic about. I mean, like today, if you had a water ship, you couldn't really get a cannon for it, and if you travel around with a cannon on your transport ship, you're going to get boarded by the coast guard.

 

[Condottiere]

Planetary governments can pretty much do what they like, as long as it doesn't disrupt trade, isn't subversive, or is too morally repulsive.

If tax payers begin dying off in large numbers, the Imperium authorities will start becoming interested. The Secret Service probably do have agents in place and informants to figure out the cost benefit of intervening, overtly or covertly.

No world with a guilty conscious really wants a visit from an assault carrier with a brigade of Imperial Marines onboard

 

[Reynard]

"I think my main confusion is due to the fact that I did not realize that the Imperium was that much of a federation. I thought it was the more direct empire, like the space empire in, for example, Dune. "

The galaxy is big, really big! If that wasn't bad enough, we have only jump physics to travel. That mixture prevents any government from becoming too monolithic. Time and distance will always weaken the system the farther away you are from the central authority. More than the other major races, the Imperium 'got it'. Rather than trying to control through one source we see a system of nobility as levels of control through mutual benefit of adopting a standard of authority while giving the flexibility of semi-sovereignce. Regions of control become relays throughout the Imperium. The Imperium has the face of an empire from it early days but functions as a federation. In a way, the aslan hierarchy is.. similar. Loyalty to the central government but control with the local clans. And the vargr are a study in cohesive Brownian motion, don't ask.

Dune has instantaneous space travel. Much easier to maintain order from a central point.

 

[CosmicGamer]

something that I wish was explained more in the core book It might be that I haven't gotten to the Imperium section in the library data yet, and I probably should have looked there first, but I like asking questions for some reason.

The Traveller core book is mostly setting independent. It can be used for Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog, Hammers Slammers, and yes, Mark Millers 3rd Imperium setting.

Also, regarding fiefs, its said several times in the book that many Archdukes, dukes and barons are granted a fief of land or a planet (for dukes). For example, even though its a bad example, the Emperor is the Archduke of Sylea, which is his fief.

In many cases the fief is an area where one still allows worlds to do their own thing and you are only in charge of collecting taxes and enforcing Imperial law. Overseeing the Ministry of Justice, Navy, Marines, Star Port Authority, and other organizations within your area to ensure they are doing their jobs right.

Where does the boundary lie between ship weapons that civilian ships can have and buy, and military grade weapons?

I think this is touched on in one of the supplements but I can't recall which.

 

[sideranautae]

Where does the boundary lie between ship weapons that civilian ships can have and buy, and military grade weapons?

No nukes is the only Imperium rule. No other ship weapon is prohibited.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Imperial "laws" found in the Mongoose Core Rulebook:

p.111

Nuclear missiles make a single attack as basic missiles but also inflict a radiation crew hit as well as a normal hit. Using nuclear weapons near an inhabited planet or orbital is forbidden by Imperial law.

p.140

Imperial law permits salvage, but the discovery must be registered first with the system starport, if any.

p.179

Starports operate according to Imperial law (equivalent to Law Level 1 for most items, and Law Level 7 for psionics).

 

[sideranautae]

p.179

Starports operate according to Imperial law (equivalent to Law Level 1 for most items, and Law Level 7 for psionics).

This is for personal items. Otherwise a ship with any weapons or even a fission PP couldn't dock. Conflating this rule with ships is a recipe for insane game play in the TU.

 

[travchao999]

I assume for ship weapons they'll mark you as suspicious, but otherwise not like, confiscate it unless you do something expressly illegal, like murder or rape while on Imperial property.

 

[sideranautae]

I assume for ship weapons they'll mark you as suspicious,

In the frontier areas no one cares. If you were well into the "center" of the Imperium then yes, you'd be viewed as an oddity at best.

 

[Condottiere]

Planetary nukes are easy to detect, and there are no excuses, except possibly Independence Day, but probably any attack with WMDs like biological and chemical weapons will get Imperium attention.

 

[travchao999]

independence day?

 

[sideranautae]

independence day?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%281996_film%29

 

[travchao999]

Oh, the movie, yeah I know the movie.

 

[RichardP]

The Third imperium is still an empire, even thought it leaves its worlds to do pretty much as they want. All worlds have to give land to the Imperium to house the imperial starport as well as any naval or scout bases. All space outside 100D of the main world or its colonies is Imperial territory, all worlds have to give 30% of their military budget to the Imperium and are not allowed to interfer with interstellar trade - e.g. no supporting pirates etc. A worlds armed forces (especially any naval vessel) can be brought under imperial control in times of crisis.

Most importantly worlds cannot leave without Imperial consent - which is not normally given. Leaving is a form of treason and the Imperial navy will put down rebellions such as the Illesh rebellion in the 400s. The navy scourced most of the world surface of the chief rebel world.

Generally worlds are left to do what they like and install whaterver government and laws they see fit. Most criminal activity is dealt with under a planet's law. Crimes in Imperial territory - bases, startports, ships in jump, settlements outside a worlds jurisdiction are dealt with in Imperial courts at the local or subsector level. There is probably several magistrates in most starports to handle the everyday stuff.

The Imperial ministry of justice with support from the marines and Imperial navy deals with interstellar crime - pirates, terrorists, major criminal masterminds, organised multi-world crime syndicates, psionics, spies etc. as well as the crimes involving Imperial nobles. crimes comitted by imperial personnel are usually handled via court martial processes. The IMOJ will co-operate with local authorities as well.

Final we have accreditted bounty hunters who can chase crinimals off-world and repo-agents who track people skipping on their starship payments. Noble huscarles who can be deployed in law enforcement matters in times of crisis at the discretion of the Imperial noble. Most mega-corps have their own security forces who seem to have permission to protect their corporate assets.

 

[RichardP]

As for ship weapons, customs agents and the starport authorities will pay more attention if yor vessel is armed. They expect civilian vessels can be armed and more so on the frontier but they are expecting turret mounted weapons - lasers, HE missiles, sand and maybe a plasma or fusion gun. They will start asking questions if they find military grade weapons, screens and sensors.

Certain civilian starships may have more powerful items than normal - a large salvage ship might have a big energy weapon to cut up hulks, a labship will have good sensors etc.

Licenced starmercs can get licences for purely military craft up to about 5ktns with military grade weapons and screens. There was an article on starmercs in one of the Traveller Journels put out by DGP. That said no meson guns or blackglobes, no nuc missiles, no very high factor weapons such as particle accelerators, but a starmerc company could but and operate fighters, gazelle close escorts, broadsword merc cruisers and 400tn patrol cruisers no problem, provided they passed the background checks.

 

[AndrewW]

As for ship weapons, customs agents and the starport authorities will pay more attention if yor vessel is armed. They expect civilian vessels can be armed and more so on the frontier but they are expecting turret mounted weapons - lasers, HE missiles, sand and maybe a plasma or fusion gun. They will start asking questions if they find military grade weapons, screens and sensors.

From Liftoff:

There are two types of weapon commonly fitted to privately-owned starships: missiles and pulse lasers. Naval ships may have other weapons including particle beam weapons, meson guns and fusion guns, but these are not normally available on the open market even if a ship had room for them.

 

[sideranautae]

Licenced starmercs can get licences for purely military craft up to about 5ktns with military grade weapons and screens.

Not per the MGT 3I rules. Only prohibition (permission needed) is for nuke weapons & bio/chem WMDs. NOTHING else. Of course you may be talking your House rules..