Imperial Marines vs Imperial Army

tytalan

Cosmic Mongoose
I suppose a better title would be the imperial stormtroopers.

So felt that the difference between the army and the marines is often either down played or totally ignored. Most people consider the marines to just be ships troops and nothing more but I think that’s not the case.
The imperial army is described as “The Unified Armies of the Imperium is built upon the regimental system, in which each sufficiently populous Imperial world within a subsector raises a regiment (typically of three to five battalions) from its own planetary defense force to be equipped and trained to Imperial standards. The battalions of these regiments are then deployed to the various brigades of the Imperial Army as needed, which are in turn organized into Imperial Army divisions. Imperial Army organization typically extends to the subsector level, and is under the ultimate authority of the local Subsector Duke, who generally appoints a Subsector Marshal to oversee its operations within his demesne. Large scale operations (as are typical during wartime) are overseen by the Sector Grand Marshal who is generally appointed by the presiding Sector Duke.”. Tho there is obviously some global requirement the tech level of the army has always been described as varied depending on the worlds local tech level which to me really is telling.

The marines on the other hand are described as “By reputation, the Imperial Marines are sent in when something or someone presents a serious threat to the well-being of the Imperium and its member worlds. They are never used lightly, and once committed, they never leave a job half-done.” and “The marine's goal is simple: put down opposition to the Emperor anywhere, anytime, and for any reason. They stand as the elite end of interstellar force projection and are kept at the cutting edge of martial technology at a high expense. Marines typically employ top of the line TL-15 weaponry including battledress, FGMPs, and grav tanks.” to me this is very telling.

So while the Army is vastly larger it is purposely kept inferior to the Marines giving the emperor a superior force to quell any rebellion.
 
There is a standing TL15 Imperial Army, it has the same status as the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Intersteller Scout Service.

The combined armies is fanon made canon.
 
I suppose a better title would be the imperial stormtroopers.

So felt that the difference between the army and the marines is often either down played or totally ignored. Most people consider the marines to just be ships troops and nothing more but I think that’s not the case.
The imperial army is described as “The Unified Armies of the Imperium is built upon the regimental system, in which each sufficiently populous Imperial world within a subsector raises a regiment (typically of three to five battalions) from its own planetary defense force to be equipped and trained to Imperial standards. The battalions of these regiments are then deployed to the various brigades of the Imperial Army as needed, which are in turn organized into Imperial Army divisions. Imperial Army organization typically extends to the subsector level, and is under the ultimate authority of the local Subsector Duke, who generally appoints a Subsector Marshal to oversee its operations within his demesne. Large scale operations (as are typical during wartime) are overseen by the Sector Grand Marshal who is generally appointed by the presiding Sector Duke.”. Tho there is obviously some global requirement the tech level of the army has always been described as varied depending on the worlds local tech level which to me really is telling.

The marines on the other hand are described as “By reputation, the Imperial Marines are sent in when something or someone presents a serious threat to the well-being of the Imperium and its member worlds. They are never used lightly, and once committed, they never leave a job half-done.” and “The marine's goal is simple: put down opposition to the Emperor anywhere, anytime, and for any reason. They stand as the elite end of interstellar force projection and are kept at the cutting edge of martial technology at a high expense. Marines typically employ top of the line TL-15 weaponry including battledress, FGMPs, and grav tanks.” to me this is very telling.

So while the Army is vastly larger it is purposely kept inferior to the Marines giving the emperor a superior force to quell any rebellion.
Where did those quotes come from?

I have always used the Imperial Army and Imperial Marines how they are described in your quotes, but I have no idea where I got those ideas from. lol

"Please do not disparage the Imperial Marines by calling them Stormtroopers. Imperial Marines actually hit what they are aiming at!"
 
The Star Wars stormtroopers were ordered to miss Luke and co.
They had to escape so they could be tracked.
 
and everyone else that they kept missing through 40+ years of media?
They are well disciplined and follow their orders to the letter. And someone forgot to rescind the order. ;)

(Like when I do Military Living History and we all have our Muskets at the poise, and then the officer goes and gets himself distracted by some comment or question from the public and gets into a conversation . . . , and we wait, . . . , until finally a corporal or someone clears his throat and says, "I don't mean to interrupt, sir, but . . . ")
 
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Where did those quotes come from?

I have always used the Imperial Army and Imperial Marines how they are described in your quotes, but I have no idea where I got those ideas from. lol

"Please do not disparage the Imperial Marines by calling them Stormtroopers. Imperial Marines actually hit what they are aiming at!"

GT: Ground Forces
 
So felt that the difference between the army and the marines is often either down played or totally ignored. Most people consider the marines to just be ships troops and nothing more but I think that’s not the case.

They are definitely far more than just ship's troops. The Imperial Marines are patterned somewhat after the organization of the USMC, with the Imperial Marine Commandos as a significant branch patterned after the RM.

(You get the best of both worlds with the Imperial Marines :)).

The imperial army is described as “The Unified Armies of the Imperium is built upon the regimental system, in which each sufficiently populous Imperial world within a subsector raises a regiment (typically of three to five battalions) from its own planetary defense force to be equipped and trained to Imperial standards. The battalions of these regiments are then deployed to the various brigades of the Imperial Army as needed, which are in turn organized into Imperial Army divisions. Imperial Army organization typically extends to the subsector level, and is under the ultimate authority of the local Subsector Duke, who generally appoints a Subsector Marshal to oversee its operations within his demesne. Large scale operations (as are typical during wartime) are overseen by the Sector Grand Marshal who is generally appointed by the presiding Sector Duke.” Tho there is obviously some global requirement the tech level of the army has always been described as varied depending on the worlds local tech level which to me really is telling.
The last sentence does not come from GT:Ground Forces (the original source) though I believe that is the interpretation that MgT: Third Imperium took. The original intent was that the Imperial Regiments of the Unified Armies were trained up to Imperial standards and maintained at Imperial TL14/15 Standard. The individual Colonial Forces and Planetary Defence Forces of particular worlds might vary based on local TL (i.e. those NOT raised for Imperial Service and trained up to Imperial standards), but they generally acted as National/Home Guard type forces.

The marines on the other hand are described as “By reputation, the Imperial Marines are sent in when something or someone presents a serious threat to the well-being of the Imperium and its member worlds. They are never used lightly, and once committed, they never leave a job half-done.” and “The marine's goal is simple: put down opposition to the Emperor anywhere, anytime, and for any reason. They stand as the elite end of interstellar force projection and are kept at the cutting edge of martial technology at a high expense. Marines typically employ top of the line TL-15 weaponry including battledress, FGMPs, and grav tanks.” to me this is very telling.

So while the Army is vastly larger it is purposely kept inferior to the Marines giving the emperor a superior force to quell any rebellion.

Because of my prior comment above, this does not follow. The Imperium would maintain its OWN Imperial Regimental Army at TL14/15. Individual worlds' Planetary Defence Forces might be something entirely different. Also, Imperial Regiments might very well be deployed in Brigades and/or Divisions serving far away from their home territory so as to distance those units from local affairs and politics. (That is why Rome deployed its Legions in territories different from the ones in which they were raised and/or named).

The local Imperial Army at the Subsector level should always at least be able to be maintained at the level of the TL of the Subsector Capital (or highest TL World of the Subsector), if nothing else. But see below.

There is a standing TL15 Imperial Army, it has the same status as the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service.

The combined armies is fanon made canon.

The Unified Armies under the Imperial Regimental system concept is workable for the Imperium as long as the TL14/15 training-standard is maintained. I think it is also an opportunity to reintroduce a very old and largely forgotten piece of canon back into the mix: The ORIGINAL Imperial Way Station.

CT-Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches, p.2:

lmperial Way Station. A base established for the repair, maintenance, and overhaul of lmperial equipment. It may include provisions for Army troop barracks, naval and scout ship overhauls, and intelligence operations.

While the Way Station is currently a large base for the IISS, their resources and supply lines could certainly be used within the Imperial system as a means of ferrying High-TL Imperial equipment to Imperial Army Regiments in regions/subsectors of sub-par TL capability.

Otherwise, you have the odd situation that there are Imperial Naval and IISS Bases, as well as Naval Depots and IISS Way Stations noted all over the Map of the Imperium and beyond, but no world with any designated Imperial Army Base or Depot.
 
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The imperial army is described as “The Unified Armies of the Imperium is built upon the regimental system, in which each sufficiently populous Imperial world within a subsector raises a regiment (typically of three to five battalions) from its own planetary defense force to be equipped and trained to Imperial standards. The battalions of these regiments are then deployed to the various brigades of the Imperial Army as needed, which are in turn organized into Imperial Army divisions. Imperial Armyorganization typically extends to the subsector level, and is under the ultimate authority of the local Subsector Duke, who generally appoints a Subsector Marshal to oversee its operations within his demesne. Large scale operations (as are typical during wartime) are overseen by the Sector Grand Marshal who is generally appointed by the presiding Sector Duke.” Tho there is obviously some global requirement the tech level of the army has always been described as varied depending on the worlds local tech level which to me really is telling.
The last sentence does not come from GT:Ground Forces (the original source) though I believe that is the interpretation that MgT: Third Imperiumtook. The original intent was that the Imperial Regiments of the Unified Armies were trained up to Imperial standards and maintained at Imperial TL14/15 Standard. The individual Colonial Forces and Planetary Defence Forces of particular worlds might vary based on local TL (i.e. those NOTraised for Imperial Service and trained up to Imperial standards), but they generally acted as National/Home Guard type forces.


Actually tho my actual quote is from the wiki the Spinward Marches campaign was the original source (that source being a CT source book). It’s in that supplement that they first talk about the decentralized army and that training to imperial standards is mentioned. The problem is no CT, MgT or TNE source defines Imperial standards. GT as a source for anything Traveller is suspected since both Marc and Steve Jackson have stated that GT is an alternate universe and not the same universe as CT. So I will stand by my post since it supports an actual Classic Traveller book.

As to why I stated the Army was given inferior equipment to the Marines that in part comes from the Imperial ROE which specifically ban the use or possession of nuclear weapons by anyone other than the Imperium forces (Navy and Marines are specifically named) and the use and possession of maeson weapons is strictly regulated. While the Army TOE lists Artillery the Marines TOE lists Maeson Guns.
 
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There is a standing TL15 Imperial Army, it has the same status as the Imperial Navy and the Imperial Intersteller Scout Service.

The combined armies is fanon made canon.
Actually it’s not Fanon made Canon. The decentralized Army is directly from the Spinward Marches Campaign with is a Classic Traveller book. It is also support by other sources. There is actually no where that they state that the imperial army is set to a TL 15 Standard other in GURPS Traveller which has been stated as not being in the Classic Traveller Universe. What is stated is that the individual Army units are Trained to Imperial Standards which does not means anything about the TL of their gear.
 
Where did those quotes come from?

I have always used the Imperial Army and Imperial Marines how they are described in your quotes, but I have no idea where I got those ideas from. lol

"Please do not disparage the Imperial Marines by calling them Stormtroopers. Imperial Marines actually hit what they are aiming at!"
The actual quotes are from the Wiki but the actual Source is the Spinward Marches Campaign. It’s a Classic Traveller Sourcebook that not only outlines a great campaign but also goes into details of the FFW and the organization of the imperial Army. It was a fairly late CT book and is often overlooked.
 
“CT-Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches, p.2:

lmperial Way Station. A base established for the repair, maintenance, and overhaul of lmperial equipment. It may include provisions for Army troop barracks, naval and scout ship overhauls, and intelligence operations.”

There’s a big difference between barracking troops and equipping them.
 
Actually it’s not Fanon made Canon. The decentralized Army is directly from the Spinward Marches Campaign with is a Classic Traveller book. It is also support by other sources. There is actually no where that they state that the imperial army is set to a TL 15 Standard other in GURPS Traveller which has been stated as not being in the Classic Traveller Universe. What is stated is that the individual Army units are Trained to Imperial Standards which does not means anything about the TL of their gear.
What are you talking about? SMC says no such thing. It features the 4518th LIR which is a Huscarle unit - the personal property of a noble raised locally and used for local tasks.
The only appearance of the Imperial Army in SMC is that the cache of TL15 Battle Dress that forms the centrepiece of the adventure is said to have originated with an Imperial Army unit.
 
What are you talking about? SMC says no such thing. It features the 4518th LIR which is a Huscarle unit - the personal property of a noble raised locally and used for local tasks.
The only appearance of the Imperial Army in SMC is that the cache of TL15 Battle Dress that forms the centrepiece of the adventure is said to have originated with an Imperial Army unit.
Read it some time they talk about a lot more than the 4518. It uses the 4518 as a comparison with other army units. I literally read it last eeek
 
I use GT: Ground Forces as my model for Imperial ground troops. Here are the high points in re: the Marines

- The Marines are the Imperium's surgical strike team. They are the Pros from Mora, Personal Violence made manifest. Marine doctrine stresses aggression over finesse and applies that aggression at the fulcrum of the problem. Marines take very few prisoners because when they're done with what they do, there's very few bad guys left to surrender.
- Marine doctrine is as a striking force in raids. It is long on teeth and short on tail. It has fewer artillery battalions and MUCH fewer vehicles. Most combat service support personnel [engineers, medical, chaplains, logistics, etc.] are Navy.
- Marines use a three battalion regiment model. Each battalion has 4 companies and a small HQ element. This will occasionally be augmented by a company of grav tanks from a Marine Armored Regiment. In standard rotation, one battalion is ashore providing garrisons, training, on leave, and available for emergency deployment, the second battalion is deployed on capital ships [either en masse aboard the squadron flagship or in companies divided among the ships of the squadron] and the third is broken up as ship's troops detachments on cruisers and the patrol vessels of the Reserve Fleets. These unit assignments change on an annual rotation basis.
- The Marines are equipped with the absolute best equipment that is available. That means TL 13-14 Battle Dress and Plasma Guns for the line Marines supported by several in TL 15 Battle Dress with Fusion Guns as support.
- All Marines are drop- and protected forces trained by definition, however they much prefer to deploy in Astrin GAPCs.
- The Marine Regiment is a combat formation and is designed to be deployed together.
- There are no Marine Divisions. The largest Marine unit deployed is the Marine Brigade, a group of two entire regiments with a battalion from Marine Armored. In a Bad War situation, the Marines are mostly deployed as battalions or regiments.
 
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The New Era sourcebooks for the Regency inc Regency Combat Vehicle Guide has the Imperial Army equipped at TL 14 and 15
 
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Actually it’s not Fanon made Canon. The decentralized Army is directly from the Spinward Marches Campaign with is a Classic Traveller book. It is also support by other sources. There is actually no where that they state that the imperial army is set to a TL 15 Standard other in GURPS Traveller which has been stated as not being in the Classic Traveller Universe. What is stated is that the individual Army units are Trained to Imperial Standards which does not means anything about the TL of their gear.
Could you get me a page reference for that please. The word combined only occurs once in the text and refers to combined operations, the word army twice.
There is a quote of interest:
The equipment of the regiment is tech level 1 5 material common
to lmperial forces.

The Imperial Army units are detailed in Invasion Earth, and Fifth Frontier War.
 
I use GT Armed Forces as my model for Imperial ground troops. Here are the high points in re: the Marines

same here but holding out for hope Mongoose does what it did for the Imperial Navy to be done for both the Marines and Army. The Navy sourcebook stands out doesn't it... for the quality.. I've only been into Traveller for a couple months but better and more experienced Traveller players have called it one of the if not THE best book done for Traveller and who am I to disagree.... but also one of the best splat books done for ANY RPG and that I'll put my 40+ years experience of RPG playing and tend to agree with that. I sure can't say I think there is a specific one better than it.

but not just for the quality.... but that distinctive blue cover that screams I AM GOD among your Traveller books.. but also cries that it is lonely for its red covered Imperial and its olive green Imperial Army sourcebooks that could go right next to it on our bookshelves. Not just to be admired but constantly plucked from the shelf to be reread and have the absolutely killer artwork admired.
 
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