Imperial Regional Cultures and Books Detailing Them: Continuation Thread

[actionman]

Sadly for the wannabe tax farmers, Traveller freelancers tend to be more inclined towards astrophysics, engineering, and military theory and less in tax accountancy.

Taxation systems are sufficiently unadventurey that I would not expect them in my RPG book any more than I would expect them in the opening scroll of a Star Wars movie.

I mentioned it to point out an inconsistency. If Mongoose states in canon that the Third Imperium collects taxes, then they need to give us a couple of sentences about how it works and how it affects the worlds of the Imperium.

So the far future is the distant past with such antiquated systems as Tax farming?

Hey, nobles gotta noble. It wouldn't be implausible for the military aristocracy of an absolute monarchy to dip its battledress gauntlet in a world's GWP now and then. Or more often than not. Or all the time. Warfleets don't fund themselves, neither do lavish noble lifestyles, and the Emperor must pay the legions.

Sadly for the wannabe tax farmers, Traveller freelancers tend to be more inclined towards astrophysics, engineering, and military theory and less in tax accountancy.

Most of the Traveller freelancers I've met have been more inclined toward brawling in startown bars, getting money from shady patrons, and resolving disagreements by expending all ammunition. They're perfect for tax patrol.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Pretty sure local and regional governments will impose taxation in some form, if only to fund their own operations, and the Imperial tithe.

There are no regional governments.
Imperial government begins at the subsector level with the subsector duke. They are the first to take a cut of the profits, the rest goes to the big man.
Pity the subsector duke who doesn't rake in enough cash for the big man...

 

[phavoc]

Some verbiage around the economics of the Imperium (and even the other races) is not a bad thing. Individual worlds may have all the flavors of revenue generation, but how does the Imperium make the necessary credits to fund all the things it does fund? And how does that translate down to the sector, subsector and even world level for the nobility who have revenue generation as well as costs?

Ideally if this is written up as canon material then it gets at least somewhat vetted with an actual economist who can say "nope, that model stinks like Aslan poop". Once it's defined then it doesn't have to be defined again. A basic description belongs in the core rulebook, but a more detailed one would belong best in either the Nobles book and/or the Pocket Empires-type book.

With the current descriptions of the Imperium I'd suspect some sort of tariff on trade, but also some levy at the world level. To be only tariff's is difficult to justify because of the economics they've created with the ability for planetary systems to mine and produce products w/o the real need for trade. And costs for trade are high, making it unlikely for cheap, bulk freighters to haul low-cost goods like grain or raw materials. Though one could, arguably, state that some of the price of the standard Cr1,000 includes Imperial tariffs. And maybe the Imperium has some monopolies on certain kinds of trade goods or manufactured goods that it's able to generate revenue. Heck, it could even have a stamp tax - though we may see some disguised Hivers throwing goods out the airlock if they raise taxes too much...

 

[Condottiere]

The military doesn't pay for itself, and if it did, you probably won't like it's income streams.

I don't think they can do internal tariffs on intersystem trade, so it's likely corporate, income, value added, luxury, sales.

Maybe sin.

 

[phavoc]

The military doesn't pay for itself, and if it did, you probably won't like it's income streams.

I don't think they can do internal tariffs on intersystem trade, so it's likely corporate, income, value added, luxury, sales.

Maybe sin.

gold does not always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can always get you gold.

 

[Vormaerin]

Most of the Traveller freelancers I've met have been more inclined toward brawling in startown bars, getting money from shady patrons, and resolving disagreements by expending all ammunition. They're perfect for tax patrol.

I meant the authors you are expecting to write this stuff up for you.

 

[Vormaerin]

I cannot imagine zero taxes

I don't believe anyone said zero taxes. IMTU, they are "invisible" taxes levied on goods and services and already factored into the prices that the players see. Taxes on businesses operating in space. Taxes on resources gathered in space. Lots of options.

I am super not a fan of this proliferation of Imperial nobles with various planet level jobs that has happened ever since GURPS decided to write up a book on Imperial Nobility. So the idea of Lord Popinjay, Knight of the Imperial Revenue Service exacting tribute from individual planets doesn't appeal. YMMV, of course.

 

[actionman]

I meant the authors you are expecting to write this stuff up for you.

Oh.

 

[actionman]

I don't believe anyone said zero taxes. IMTU, they are "invisible" taxes levied on goods and services and already factored into the prices that the players see. Taxes on businesses operating in space. Taxes on resources gathered in space. Lots of options.

I am super not a fan of this proliferation of Imperial nobles with various planet level jobs that has happened ever since GURPS decided to write up a book on Imperial Nobility. So the idea of Lord Popinjay, Knight of the Imperial Revenue Service exacting tribute from individual planets doesn't appeal. YMMV, of course.

I'm not a fan of it either.

I don't find it plausible that the Imperium would be so hands off. It's an aggressive expansionistic absolute monarchy with a military aristocracy. IMO, nobles would be far more involved in the governing of the Imperium's worlds.

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, I disagree that it is aggressive. It is expansionistic, but not militarily except in a few rare cases. Per the history, it's actually pretty militarily inept, having fought few wars successfully with an external foe.

Also, if it actually ruled worlds directly instead of acting as a trade confederation, you would need very different rules for how planetary governments work.

 

[Condottiere]

Friendzoned

 

[WHULorigan]

Per the history, it's actually pretty militarily inept, having fought few wars successfully with an external foe.

Well, you should probably specify "near-peer' foes. It does fairly well with Vargr Corsair polities from the Extents and other lesser foes in terms of TL (-2 or less) or when they are smaller or not unified. The Imperium's borders have been long-term stable, despite being surrounded on all sides by potentially aggressive polities.

 

[Vormaerin]

The Imperium does a good job as a police force. But it has been basically ineffective at war fighting with almost no decisive victories.

The vast majority of its expansion was non military.

The most common way to expand was showing up at a planet and saying "hey, we'll stop raiders, transfer tech, and do lots of trade if you just join our team and let us build a starport. You can keep your own government and stuff"

The second most common was "huh, no one lives here, let's fix that".

They did do some "conquest" when planets refused to join even after everyone around them joined. But even that was mostly just dominating space and saying "surrender or you'll be blockaded" or crushing pirate planets.

Actual wars with foreign enemies? The Chanestin war was started by the Chanestins, who first executed the Sylean traders and then attacked the fleet that came looking for them. And the Imperium only won by attrition after nearly a century of war.

The Imperium definitely declared war on the Julians, but they lost.

Have they declared any other wars? They fought with Vargr and Aslan raiders, but those were basically defensive. The wars with the Zhodani were started by the Zhodani.

Obviously, they fought a number of civil wars: Ilelish Revolt, The big civil war of the Emperors of the Flag, and the succession of the Solomani (which was basically a draw).

 

[CordwainerFish]

Pretty much the only nut the Third Imperium tried to crack and couldn't is the Julian Protectorate, right? Even the Solomani Confederacy they decided 'yeah, here's a good place to draw a line on the map and call it enough'.

 

[Vormaerin]

Pretty much the only nut the Third Imperium tried to crack and couldn't is the Julian Protectorate, right? Even the Solomani Confederacy they decided 'yeah, here's a good place to draw a line on the map and call it enough'.

I could be forgetting one, but I don't think the Imperium has actually declared war on anyone other than the Julians unless you don't consider the Solomani leaving the Imperium to be a civil war because the Imperium pretended they hadn't left for a bit before fighting a war that resulted in some of the Solomani rejoining the Imperium and the rest not.

That war was basically like if the US reconquered Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia, and Tennessee and then told the rest of the Confederacy "Well, okay, whatever. You do you."

 

[Condottiere]

SOLEXIT

 

[MasterGwydion]

Yeah, I tend to assume that there's some kinds of excise taxes on interstellar goods, but I don't worry about the details. Just like I don't worry about the business licenses, professional certifications, registration fees, and myriad other ways governments extract revenue from businesses.

Even I only tend to worry about these things if they come up in a game for some reason. Other than that, that is more detail than I need. lol

 

[MasterGwydion]

SOLEXIT

SEXIT lmao

 

[Condottiere]

S/OLO/EXIT

 

[WHULorigan]

. . . the Solomani leaving the Imperium . . . the Imperium pretended they hadn't left for a bit before fighting a war that resulted in some of the Solomani rejoining the Imperium and the rest not.

That war was basically like if the US reconquered Virginia, Kentucky, Virginia, and Tennessee and then told the rest of the Confederacy "Well, okay, whatever. You do you."

Yes, but if I recall the Imperium basically reconquered those territories within the Confederation that were historically part of current and prior Imperia (1st - 3rd; the Ziru Sirka & Rule of Man had never controlled those rimward regions). The Third Imperium had declared the SAR to be a 50pc radius sphere centered on Terra, but that doesn't mean that the Third Imperium had necessarily controlled all of that territory prior, only that it wouldn't interfere in that region. Remember that the Old Earth Union had only rejoined the 3I in 588, and the SAR was declared in 704 after the antebellum Imperial expansionist period was over, with two Frontier Wars and a concurrent Civil War in between). It is likely that most of the rimward sphere was largely virgin Solomani colonial expansion that had never been part of the Imperium, other than by extension as the SAR was still considered technically a part of the Imperium. The Imperium may have simply decided to stop close to its former technical rimward borders, considering that its mandated obligation to non-Solomani Imperial citizens in the region was fulfilled, and that further action was a waste of resources and materiel for no clear goal (especially since the Rim War fell on the heels of the just completed Third Frontier War).

But I understand your prior points made upthread about the Imperium not being largely based on military conquest, nor being particularly aggressive or decisively defeating external aggressors and/or taking their territory.