Imperial Law???

[HalC]

For what it is worth:

Imperial capital world laws are in effect on all Imperial territory such as starports inside the XT line or the imperial nobility fief, and last but not least - imperial flagged civilian and naval ships. Doesn’t matter if the ship is in space, at port, or on the surface of a sovereign world or territory. A marriage performed by the ship’s captain is based upon the “flag” his ship is flying. Thus, a Lunion merchant ship licensed at Lunion, is governed by Lunion’s laws. An Imperial ship is governed by Capital (Core) laws.

I suspect too, that on Imperial worlds without Moot representation (worlds whose pop levels are less than a pop 5 value) - worlds claimed by the Imperium but not recognized as full member worlds - are protectorates or colonies or simple resource mining settlements - all in theory ruled by Capital (Core) legal structures. Once a world becomes a sovereign member world with at least a Baron or greater representing said world at the Moot - then its sovereign rights to have its own law system take effect

This kind of approach can instill a quasi-cultural foundation for worlds to build off of for a common Imperial Culture.

That’s just my opinion, but that framework I use helps keep chaos to a minimum. Otherwise, you will have issues of jurisdiction rearing its ugly head. Can a mainworld own mineral rights on a planet within its own star system? Can a woman have three husbands and marry a fourth husband off world but still in the same star system? Can you have two highly populated worlds in the same system have sovereign rights AND moot membership?

All depends on the GM doesn’t it? So, that’s how I view things. Citizens are born on Imperial soil. Subjects are born on sovereign Imperial worlds that have laws not that of Capital (Core)

 

[MasterGwydion]

For what it is worth:

Imperial capital world laws are in effect on all Imperial territory such as starports inside the XT line or the imperial nobility fief, and last but not least - imperial flagged civilian and naval ships. Doesn’t matter if the ship is in space, at port, or on the surface of a sovereign world or territory. A marriage performed by the ship’s captain is based upon the “flag” his ship is flying. Thus, a Lunion merchant ship licensed at Lunion, is governed by Lunion’s laws. An Imperial ship is governed by Capital (Core) laws.

I suspect too, that on Imperial worlds without Moot representation (worlds whose pop levels are less than a pop 5 value) - worlds claimed by the Imperium but not recognized as full member worlds - are protectorates or colonies or simple resource mining settlements - all in theory ruled by Capital (Core) legal structures. Once a world becomes a sovereign member world with at least a Baron or greater representing said world at the Moot - then its sovereign rights to have its own law system take effect

This kind of approach can instill a quasi-cultural foundation for worlds to build off of for a common Imperial Culture.

That’s just my opinion, but that framework I use helps keep chaos to a minimum. Otherwise, you will have issues of jurisdiction rearing its ugly head. Can a mainworld own mineral rights on a planet within its own star system? Can a woman have three husbands and marry a fourth husband off world but still in the same star system? Can you have two highly populated worlds in the same system have sovereign rights AND moot membership?

All depends on the GM doesn’t it? So, that’s how I view things. Citizens are born on Imperial soil. Subjects are born on sovereign Imperial worlds that have laws not that of Capital (Core)

Would this mean that anyone born in space is almost automatically an Imperial Citizen?

 

[ottarrus]

Anyone born within Imperial borders is an Imperial Citizen.
Presumably that also includes:
- People born to serving Imperial officers or officials in foreign space
- People born to Imperial citizens in foreign space upon registration with the nearest Imperial Consulate
- etc.
ALL worlds of the Imperium must include Imperial Law in their local body of laws. I've linked the Library Data [wiki] link below. Worlds do not get to pick and choose which Imperial Laws they wish to follow or ignore. I think if everyone reads through that Library entry, it'll clear up a lot of questions.

Imperial Law - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

 

[Sigtrygg]

All Imperial worlds don't apply Imperial law, just go read The Traveller Adventure. The wiki is not the best source for this.

My principle issue with Imperial Law and the like, especially the Warrant of Restoration, is that the authors were turning their fanon into T4 canon and made the Imperium declaration far too much like Yanks in Space.

Imperial Law in A1 was
step out of line and you disappear
trespass on a noble's land and you disappear
no trial, no jury
In A2
kidnap, enslavement, imprisonment and experimentation on non-consenting "aliens"
In The Traveller Adventure
too many contradictions of "Imperial Law" to list.

 

[Condottiere]

Megacorporation mining concessions or extraterritoriality.

 

[ottarrus]

OK, Sigg, you use the 'Yanks in Space' term a lot. What precisely do you mean by that?

 

[ColinD]

So, reading Mongoose's, The Third Imperium I see the Warrant of Restoration mentioned numerous times. The wiki references 1996's Milieu 0, also. Does this make it something non-canon ?

 

[ottarrus]

So, reading Mongoose's, The Third Imperium I see the Warrant of Restoration mentioned numerous times. The wiki references 1996's Milieu 0, also. Does this make it something non-canon ?

Nope.
Milieu 0 is the setting for T4, or 'Marc Miller's Traveller'. It takes place at the foundation of the Imperium up to about 200. It's an official product put out by Imperium Games, the successor to GDW. IG eventually morphed into Far Future.

 

[Sigtrygg]

OK, Sigg, you use the 'Yanks in Space' term a lot. What precisely do you mean by that?

Imaginary American values projected on the 57th century autocratic feudal corrupt dystopian Third Imperium.

 

[ottarrus]

Imaginary American values projected on the 57th century autocratic feudal corrupt dystopian Third Imperium.

Would you mind being just a bit more specific?
I'm not picking at you, I just want to be sure what I'm responding to.

One thing I will say is that EVERY government in the OTU has very serious problems with it...
- The Vargr have every kind of government imaginable... for 15 minutes
- The Aslan have a capital F Feudal Technocracy run by the least capable members of society
- The Zhodani rely on mind control to keep the Proles in line
- The Sollies are out-and-out racists... Aparteid-style racial supremacists
- The Hivers have an anarchy, mostly because their Manipulations work at cross purposes all the time
- The Cows With Guns are simply ludicrous.... until they attack
- And the Third Imperium is a trash can of cultures, corporations, and other influences all trying to trip each other up.

As for 'dystopian', PCs see the very worst of the Third Imperium. If the PCs were playing in the Zhodani Consulate, they'd see the worst of that, and so forth. 'Troubleshooters for hire' tend to see the dark underside of any given society, regime, government, or economic system. But the majority of sophonts in all major governments are reasonably content with their lot. Hell, even Soviet citizens were fairly happy right before the Wall came down. And as I have said in other posts, even the post-scarcity paradise of Star Trek's Federation [a civilization that puts a Hell of a lot more effort into actually living up to its ideals than any other society I can think of] has pissed off citizens.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Condottiere]

Trim the trees and mow the lawn.

Taxation rates might vary.

However, ship collections, voluntary or not, have been carried out by quite a number of countries, and because the electorate feels a certain investment in these projects, can become politically sensitive.

Charles the First levied Ship Money, while later attempts were a bit more sophisticated by naming warships after urban areas; apparently, the boroughs were given exact ship models.

 

[ottarrus]

Virtually every society ever described in Traveller has a historic Earth counterpart... ESPECIALLY in its errors and failures.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Sigtrygg]

And when the Gorilla and the Sydite meet at a rocky place in the middle of nowhere they will beat their chests and declare "My Kung Fu better than yours"

And all the while the Ithklur picks and arranges flowers, knowing he could take them both at the same time.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

[Traveller, Long] Structure of the Imperium | Tabletop Roleplaying Open

I was dusting off my hard drive this morning and found an old article I had written and was supposed to be published in Traveller Chronicles 14. It died at number 13 and it never went anywhere else. Hoping that it could be of help to people, I put it up so that anybody interested can read it...

forum.rpg.net

Found the above article from 2005 by The Masked Cucumber.

Enjoy