High Guard 4th edition

[Sigtrygg]

A PC scale ship combat resolution system should be part of the core rule book, as should design rules for ACS.

High Guard to me should be warships, megacorporation bulk traders, highliners.

High Guard should include a squadron scale combat system. Sensors, maneuver, the lot. Range bands that allow conservation of momentum as done for Starter Edition CT.

I agree that a full on fleet vs fleet for control of a gas giant or high port is best left to a dedicated wargame. But the wargame should be built from High Guard.

 

[ottarrus]

You propose a middle ground with squadron level combat, Sig, and that's not a bad suggestion at all. I can back that.
However, I still think that starship design and starship economics should be part of High Guard even if there is some overlap with the basic rules. The idea is that High Guard is a one-book omnibus of everything about starships.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Do you remember when TNE had no ship construction rules in the CRB? Or when MgT2e dropped ship construction in favour of forcing the purchase of another book...

ACS and PC scale roleplaying space combat and ship construction should be in the CRB.

High Guard is the warship supplement.

You could even have a Civilian Shipping supplement... building civilian ships up to the megacorportaion bulk trader scale, polity level trade and commerce could finally see print.

 

[ottarrus]

Do you remember when TNE had no ship construction rules in the CRB? Or when MgT2e dropped ship construction in favour of forcing the purchase of another book...

ACS and PC scale roleplaying space combat and ship construction should be in the CRB.

High Guard is the warship supplement.

You could even have a Civilian Shipping supplement... building civilian ships up to the megacorportaion bulk trader scale, polity level trade and commerce could finally see print.

OK, two things...
'ACS'? You lost me there. Not sure what you mean.
I think you and I have a different vision of High Guard then. I think of it as a 'one stop shop' for all things starships with a separate wargame book /game. Operations, design and construction, economics and small ship combat all in one book. This doesn't mean that the basics of all this couldn't be in a Core Rulebook rewrite. High Guard would expand on those basics.
Civilian shipping could be expanded and discussed in a Merchant Prince book that would not only discuss shipping, but trade routes, the interstellar marketplace, and how goods get from production worlds to consumer worlds and how price increases work. This would the make Trade and Commerce Table folks very happy
A third book, let's just call it 'Grand Admiral' for this discussion, would deal with fleet operations and wargaming.
I am in no way saying your conception is wrong. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' when we're all just spitballing ideas. If we're gonna divide the big subject of 'starships in Traveller' up into separate books, it would be a good idea to discuss the how and why early on.

 

[Sigtrygg]

ACS - Adventure Class Ships, the sort of ships operated bay a typical group of Travellers.

My opinion clearly stated is:

The Core rule book should cover everything a typical group of PCs get up to - the merchant sub-game, ACS building and combat.

High Guard was always a book about Warships. It should be for warship design and warship combat. Fully compatible with the CRB and easily used as an expansion, but not a requirement. I don't see the point in having the rules to build fleets and not have the rules to fight with them in the same book. I have been asking for A Call to Arms: High Guard for an awfully long time now.

My suggestion for a Merchant Marine book would cover civilian big ship construction and a more in depth trading and commerce game. Again fully compatible with the CRD and High Guard.

The design systems, trading systems, and combat systems need to be written before the books even go to the eventual authors to put together.

 

[Terry Mixon]

ACS - Adventure Class Ships, the sort of ships operated bay a typical group of Travellers.

My opinion clearly stated is:

The Core rule book should cover everything a typical group of PCs get up to - the merchant sub-game, ACS building and combat.

High Guard was always a book about Warships. It should be for warship design and warship combat. Fully compatible with the CRB and easily used as an expansion, but not a requirement. I don't see the point in having the rules to build fleets and not have the rules to fight with them in the same book. I have been asking for A Call to Arms: High Guard for an awfully long time now.

My suggestion for a Merchant Marine book would cover civilian big ship construction and a more in depth trading and commerce game. Again fully compatible with the CRD and High Guard.

The design systems, trading systems, and combat systems need to be written before the books even go to the eventual authors to put together.

Merchant Marine doesn’t sound quite right, but I like the overall themes and ideas.

 

[Arkathan]

Definite YES on A Call to Arms: High Guard.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Definite YES on A Call to Arms: High Guard.

I seem to recall @MongooseMatt saying that they had had some internal discussions around this very thing.

 

[MasterGwydion]

ACS - Adventure Class Ships, the sort of ships operated bay a typical group of Travellers.

My opinion clearly stated is:

The Core rule book should cover everything a typical group of PCs get up to - the merchant sub-game, ACS building and combat.

High Guard was always a book about Warships. It should be for warship design and warship combat. Fully compatible with the CRB and easily used as an expansion, but not a requirement. I don't see the point in having the rules to build fleets and not have the rules to fight with them in the same book. I have been asking for A Call to Arms: High Guard for an awfully long time now.

My suggestion for a Merchant Marine book would cover civilian big ship construction and a more in depth trading and commerce game. Again fully compatible with the CRD and High Guard.

The design systems, trading systems, and combat systems need to be written before the books even go to the eventual authors to put together.

I guess you could do it like this, but then you'd be reprinting a lot of what was in the CRB in High Guard as well and the CRB would ballon to a huge size and be full of stuff that a Roleplayer (as opposed to the Gearheads and the Wargamers) will never use. Staterooms, power plants, civilian weapons, common areas, Computers, hull types, drives, etc.... All of this would have to be printed in both books by your way of doing things or I would have to look in multiple books just to have the complete information.

Perhaps it is just Me, but that seems like an incredibly poor way to go about things, making it harder to play the game.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Merchant Marine doesn’t sound quite right, but I like the overall themes and ideas.

It is a sly dig at 1st edition MgT

 

[Sigtrygg]

I guess you could do it like this, but then you'd be reprinting a lot of what was in the CRB in High Guard as well and the CRB would ballon to a huge size and be full of stuff that a Roleplayer (as opposed to the Gearheads and the Wargamers) will never use. Staterooms, power plants, civilian weapons, common areas, Computers, hull types, drives, etc.... All of this would have to be printed in both books by your way of doing things or I would have to look in multiple books just to have the complete information.

Perhaps it is just Me, but that seems like an incredibly poor way to go about things, making it harder to play the game.

No reprinting of rules. Everything in the High Guard Book and the Merchant Factors book would be additions to the basic rules in the CRB. The CRB doesn't need to change much at all from how it is now.

 

[Terry Mixon]

It is a sly dig at 1st edition MgT

Ah. I missed that one, so it went over my head.

 

[Condottiere]

I don't know what's the best configuration of the rulebooks for Traveller.

But, the Core book could contain everything that a player needs to create and equip (and play) his character(s).

In order to ensure sufficient numbers of spacers for commercial craft, in reality, you're likely recruiting cheap labour from lo/tech worlds.

 

[Jame Rowe]

It is a sly dig at 1st edition MgT

Like where the merchant marine were actual marines, instead of a stand-in for corporate shipping?

I like the idea of having ACS be noted as being different from large ships, though I think having the main construction rules be in one book, and compatible with each other but noted as one section for ACS and one for expanded rules, is better than having more than expanding what's in the CRB presently - due entirely to book size and cost; putting that much into the CRB would increase the price enough to potentially drive non-gearhead people away.

 

[Condottiere]

You'd need a rationale why twenty four hundred tonnes is more optimal than twenty five hundred tonnes.

In our case, it was because of alphabet drive tables.

 

[Arkathan]

You'd need a rationale why twenty four hundred tonnes is more optimal than twenty five hundred tonnes.

In our case, it was because of alphabet drive tables.

Which is an excellent argument to keep such systems relegated to historical footnotes.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The typical ACS is under 1000t.

 

[MasterGwydion]

No reprinting of rules. Everything in the High Guard Book and the Merchant Factors book would be additions to the basic rules in the CRB. The CRB doesn't need to change much at all from how it is now.

So, I would need both the CRB and HG to build ships? Currently all I need is HG to build ships, with the exception of Mongoose sprinkling rules all over the damn place in random spots of random books.

 

[Condottiere]

I'd strip Core of that, and just list premade spacecraft.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I'd strip Core of that, and just list premade spacecraft.

That wouldn't be a bad thing.