Fixing the Narn / G'Quan

[H]

from reviewing many of the battlescene compilations, one thing is abundantly clear. . . only the shadows aren't seemingly using a generally boresight beam system (and one ancient). the most obvious other none boresight is the single beam from the G'Quan, and the Agammemnon shooting from amidships at the WS (this was covered in game with p + s minibeams). I believe there is a "similar" hyperion scene, the two EA ones could be attributed to CGI error. The Narn one is seen seemingly coming from the same barrel location as the main beam, but is just as likely to have been a CGI error. viewed through the maintbot, the first shots are pulse weaponry at a downward and about 15 degree angle from forward, then in the second shot, the maintbot number has changed, and we also see a beam. round about 6:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARkwIQ_AaI&NR=1. I am sure ther is another one that is almost 90 degrees off bore, and loks like it is actually slicing the prong off, but I cannae find it at present.
one thing that is clear is that both Omegas and G'Quans can angle beams downwards, so it stands to reason they could move them horizintally. Yes I am saying the omega as well, lets be fair in all this. from all the main ships we see fire, the Drazi, the Minbari, 90% of narn and EA, the WS fleet, fire Boresight or near as damnit. the shadows fire in many directions, the vorlons I'm still looking at. It is also interesting that the Vree fire vertically downwards from their ships, not at all turreted even the ancients (bar one) are seen firing boresight at the battle of corriana.

also just a correction, I stated earluer the G'Quan is the only ship we ever see fire a dual beam. I stand corrected, we see an omega do it at the "liberation" of earth. we just see the G'Quan do it a heck of a lot more.

 

[Hindsight]

Boresight should be removed from the game.

Too many issues with it. Too easy to just initiative sink your enemy, and that just encourages more cheese swarms. I want to play realistic starship battles, again... NOT ROGUE SQUADRON!

The G'Quan was a heroic ship, it saved Sheridan, it time and time again was a integral part of the show. I just want to see it worth using, and if it becomes worthwhile, I will build that Narn fleet, 4+ CBD or not.

 

[H]

Boresight should be removed from the game.

Too many issues with it. Too easy to just initiative sink your enemy, and that just encourages more cheese swarms. I want to play realistic starship battles, again... NOT ROGUE SQUADRON!

The G'Quan was a heroic ship, it saved Sheridan, it time and time again was a integral part of the show. I just want to see it worth using, and if it becomes worthwhile, I will build that Narn fleet, 4+ CBD or not.

ok I have to say it. . . .how the hell does anyone know what a realistic starship battle will actually be like?

 

[Cavalier1645]

Ok so we are agreement that the Quan needs to be fixed?

How bout G'Vann?

 

[Tzarevitch]

Actually, thinking about it a bit more, I'd have the G'Lan with a 4AD 18" F arc Mag Gun with 2AD of Ion torps and no laser cannon at all! It's keep the wording of the SA much simpler!

Regards,

Dave

I wouldn't bother with the Ion torps at all. They muddy the ship's mission. If the mag gun seems weak at 4d make it 5 and leave off the torps.

Tzarevitch

 

[H]

Ok so we are agreement that the Quan needs to be fixed?

How bout G'Vann?

? you mean the G'Vrahn? leave it alone now, it's taken it's mini nerf

 

[Greg Smith]

from reviewing many of the battlescene compilations, one thing is abundantly clear. . . only the shadows aren't seemingly using a generally boresight beam system (and one ancient).

Yes. The Vorlons only ever fire off bore once. The Minbari is a tough one becuase we see beams all over the place, but they could be fusion cannons. The Victory's beams only ever fire bore.

the most obvious other none boresight is the single beam from the G'Quan, and the Agammemnon shooting from amidships at the WS (this was covered in game with p + s minibeams).

The G'quan is certainly the most distinctive, and unless I am mistaken, it is only one ship in one episode.

one thing that is clear is that both Omegas and G'Quans can angle beams downwards,

Yes. We see the Omegas do that on a couple of occasions. We only actually see them move horitontally once.

so it stands to reason they could move them horizintally.

Or simply roll the ship.

Yes I am saying the omega as well, lets be fair in all this. from all the main ships we see fire, the Drazi, the Minbari, 90% of narn and EA, the WS fleet, fire Boresight or near as damnit. the shadows fire in many directions, the vorlons I'm still looking at. It is also interesting that the Vree fire vertically downwards from their ships, not at all turreted

The Xorr's guns look turreted, but I think we only ever see the Xill fire, which was downwards.

But I think we are all agreed the G'Quan needs fixing and there needs to be some change to boresight. The question is, how do we do it?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The Victory's beams only ever fire bore.

Except in All Call to Arms when they fire sustained beams from the dorsal turret. The same turret that, in Crusade mounts the pulse cannons.

 

[Greg Smith]

True, but I assumed those were the fusion cannons. Although, like the Minbari there is no way to tell which is which, or in the context of the show if they are one and the same.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

We see the fusion cannons in In the Beginning when the Black Star slaughters Sheridan's fleet. Those beams that flash around the Sharlin for literally a second at a time are the mini-beams. The Victory's beams fire for much longer.

 

[Greg Smith]

So in game terms the Victory shouldn't have mini-beams but should have a turret-mounted beam? As well as front and aft beams that should be boresight. Intereseting. I will have to rewatch In the Beginning (and possibly A Sky Full of Stars) and contrast and compare.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

My feeling is the beams it has are ok, because it has multiple beam emitters to cover those arcs. Maybe it shouldn't have the mini-beams, but the armament works ok really.

 

[Taran]

I could go for a 30" turreted beam on the VCD. 4AD, please...


I agree that the first thing that needs done to the Narn is that ALL "Light Pulse Cannons" be upgraded to "Pulse Cannons" and given 10" range.

 

[H]

well, let look at it from two perspectives.

1) the show. as stated, the times we see the g'quan fire in the main are boresight, or near as damnit, with a small incidence of off bore which could be CGI error. so on that basis, Foxmeisters Idea works nicely, or a G'Quan rule (which should possibly apply to the omega too) of a twin linked beam to represent the fact they are the only ships firing two at once, this of course is slightly less gross than two beams (depending on Ad i suppose)

2) the game. The issue with the G'Quan, and indeed others such as the avioki is not so much their hit points, nor so much their damage output (well ok this is a small issue) but is the fact they are slow so take an age to get their many dice in range, and they have no defences against crits, which can stop them EVER getting those many dice in range.

which of course then calls for either an active defence like interceptors, a passive one like shields, or some kind of crit evasion. of course we all know the long long discussions on redundancy, and it would be unfair to give the G'Quan something and not the Avioki, the Primus, even the Sharlin which if you can hit and remove it's stealth trait is a bit boned. . . on that basis, a G'Quan fix is probably best looked at in terms of damage output represented in point 1, whilst all larger ships should get something to deal with point 2 (ok interceptor and shield and dodge fleets already have this to a small degere. . so would be a ballache to balance out.)

 

[Cavalier1645]

The Heavy laser need to definitely be increase in damage
and/or it secondary got be fixed
and/or need some point defense (not alot maybe just Interceptor 1), Iam surprise why none of the other major powers (beside earth) have interceptors. Ok I know you can use the show argument its a earth tech, but are you telling me that no other advance space race developed point defense? Then there is whole Centauri Guardian arrays (why haven the centauri put those on majority of there vessels?

Can't belive a Centauri player is advocating make a Narn ship meaner, but i am tried of see the Narn take it on the chin with every new revision. First the Quan gets nerf (first revison, along with our beautiful Primus), Now they take away what make a Q'Vrahn A good Narn warlevel ship. Please I feel for you Narn players, as much I don't want too, please clown the Narn.

A Centauri Vice Admiral
Earth-Centauri War Veteran

 

[Cavalier1645]

Sorry..lol

freudian slip

I meant don't clown the Narn.

Understandable I am a Centauri player

 

[Da Boss]

Not sure what it means when we have so many Centauri players suggesting improvements to the Narn - wait its those damn Drakh isn't it :shock:

 

[skavendan]

Not sure what it means when we have so many Centauri players suggesting improvements to the Narn - wait its those damn Drakh isn't it :shock:

You are betrayed lol

 

[katadder]

the g'vrahn is still a good war level ship and probably still one of the best out there. 2 turns, more firepower than pretty much anyone else. its firepower never got taken off just the command to make it a warship and interceptors as they are un-narnlike.

 

[Cavalier1645]

the g'vrahn is still a good war level ship and probably still one of the best out there. 2 turns, more firepower than pretty much anyone else. its firepower never got taken off just the command to make it a warship and interceptors as they are un-narnlike.

Other ships in the Narn have interceptors. I belive doesn't one of their raid or skrimsh level ships have one? And command every one got command on their war level ships. What they did to the G'Vrahn is make is cut down its survial rating by half. It still a fire magnet (like you said it still got it weapons untouch..for now) and most enemy aren't stupid. I am Centauri Player, and I often over powered a G'V'hrann with a squadron of demos. The only time I lost that equasion is when the G'Vrahn interceptors shot my Torpedos and ion cannon bolts, down to a pont i could due a enought damage and crits (which really criple the G'vrahn) to stop it. Now with those gone more stuff going to crit lotto that ship to death (and CBD don't stop the crit effects which are sometime more dangerous than damage) You have essentally created now a bigger Q'Quan, and much like that ship, it going to die horribly.

Earth-Centauri War Vet



Un-Narn like, are you trying to impile that the Narn are the Babylon 5 version of Orks, because I thought that was the province of the Drazi.