the g'Vrahn was the only interceptor fitted narn vessel as it was shiny ISA technology. not every warship has copmmand, may i refer you for example to the sharlin, a ship which deserves iT cos of it's funky holo command suite. the Tashkat and takata are also laCking iirc. i would check, but my works filter has blocked all the ship stat sites, oh my!
Fixing the Narn / G'Quan
- Thread starter Da Boss
- Start date
No there are no interceptor ships in the Narn fleet other than the G'Vrahn.
No not all war level ships have command.
Yes the mantle of Orc is shared by the Narn and the Drazi.
You comment that you overcame a G'Vrahn with squadrons of Demos, which I think if anything weakened your argument given the Demos is also undergoing a correction.
Ripple
No not all war level ships have command.
Yes the mantle of Orc is shared by the Narn and the Drazi.
You comment that you overcame a G'Vrahn with squadrons of Demos, which I think if anything weakened your argument given the Demos is also undergoing a correction.
Ripple
katadder said:
and why shouldn't it be, something is always going to be the most powerful, i'd still however advocate the simple switch of one shot e-mines on gthe G-V and slow loading on the BinTak. I'm assuming that as this just isn't seemingly happening Matt doesn't like it as I imagine Katadder has mentioned it 2, 3 or 10 times ;-)
Foxmeister
Mongoose
hiffano said:
Ditto - I'd leave all the other traits on the e-mine (i.e. range etc) but a O/S e-mine makes far more sense on the G'Vrahn than it does the Bin'Tak, and it would also serve to make the Bin'Tak more attractive in comparison to the G'Vrahn.
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
And swapping S/L and O/S between the two would fix remedy that issue. It would further nerf the G'Vrahn, and make the Bin'Tak much more of an option, but importantly not make the Bin'Tak so much better as to make it the new class leader.
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
hiffano said:
Though it should still be Command +2, and the G'Tal Command +1, to fit the actual fluff on the G'Tal!
Regards,
Dave
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
I'm surprised that Matt isn't receptive to this idea - it wouldn't really change the dynamics of the two ships much, but it would give the Bin'Tak more of a purpose than it currently has.
I suppose that someone would argue that it would make the Bin'Tak more of a sniper than a brawler, but in my opinion given its speed, short range secondaries, and the fact that it's Lumbering, in my experience with it, it's always been better as a sniper than a brawler.
Regards,
Dave
extending the range of the secondaries wont actually do anything especially if its just the pulse cannons
gives you the fun feeling of having shot something but they dont actually do anything to speak of
just played a 3point war against brakiri
1 bin tak and 4 gquans
I was unloading a ton of secondaries at one point. I believe I had 44 shots from fighters(lost one frazi flight to anti fighter) and another 20 ion and 16 pulse from 2 gquans on one ship, it really didnt do anything
should point out that well I technically won the game it was more from a tatical blunder on the brakaris part then the awesomeness of anything I had
well except 8 troops on the gquan
gives you the fun feeling of having shot something but they dont actually do anything to speak of
just played a 3point war against brakiri
1 bin tak and 4 gquans
I was unloading a ton of secondaries at one point. I believe I had 44 shots from fighters(lost one frazi flight to anti fighter) and another 20 ion and 16 pulse from 2 gquans on one ship, it really didnt do anything
should point out that well I technically won the game it was more from a tatical blunder on the brakaris part then the awesomeness of anything I had
well except 8 troops on the gquan
Cavalier1645
Mongoose
The Problem with the Narn is that they have no point defense what so ever (Yes and now the G'Vrahn is being play test with out interceptors). The majority of Narn ship are unmanueverable Bath tubs. The good ships like the Katoc class can't even hang with there Centauri nemesis the Demo. Yes it got a mag gun and heavy laser cannon, but unless you role good it doesn't do enough damage to the Demos. Demos retalitates with 6 torpedos and now 6 Ion Cannons and unusally comes out worse for wear (most of the torps and Ion cannon hits and PD to stop them).
What about e-mines, yep they hurt, but never seen them be the decisive factor in any games i have played (9 games (Centauri) vs Narn all victory for Centauri)
Oh on the Bintak. Not Worth the Price. One Big Fire magnet (crippled one with a 4 Demos) A Lumbering Dinosaur. Ya got lots of guns, But its manuevers and moves like elderly person in a walker. So this begs the question how are you going to use those guns when most are short range .
We all agree the narn need help. I Would like to see a list where the narn need improment
What about e-mines, yep they hurt, but never seen them be the decisive factor in any games i have played (9 games (Centauri) vs Narn all victory for Centauri)
Oh on the Bintak. Not Worth the Price. One Big Fire magnet (crippled one with a 4 Demos) A Lumbering Dinosaur. Ya got lots of guns, But its manuevers and moves like elderly person in a walker. So this begs the question how are you going to use those guns when most are short range .
We all agree the narn need help. I Would like to see a list where the narn need improment
lol the narn dont need help, most their ships are pretty good. the bin'tak is best off jumping into the middle of an enemy fleet but even without that it hasnt got bad long range firepower.
at skirmish they have the only skirmish ship with a TD beam. they also have the manouvrable thentus. and pretty much every skirmish ship carries a fighter and even EA cant do that.
at raid again you have the manouvrable var'nic, the e-mine loving dag'kar and the tank of the t'loth that no one can slow down for fear of being boarded.
battle lets them down a bit but not that much with the improved g'quan.
war they have the best warship in the game, and the bin'tak is a really good one too, just doesnt match the g'vrahn.
armageddon you have the biggest ship in the game.
at skirmish they have the only skirmish ship with a TD beam. they also have the manouvrable thentus. and pretty much every skirmish ship carries a fighter and even EA cant do that.
at raid again you have the manouvrable var'nic, the e-mine loving dag'kar and the tank of the t'loth that no one can slow down for fear of being boarded.
battle lets them down a bit but not that much with the improved g'quan.
war they have the best warship in the game, and the bin'tak is a really good one too, just doesnt match the g'vrahn.
armageddon you have the biggest ship in the game.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Agree with katadder! Some Narn need help --- my entrants are the Rongoth/Rothan, T'Loth/T'Rann, G'Sten, and G'Quan/G'Quonth/G'Lan/G'Tal --- but you have numerous fairly manouverale flet assets to choose from:
The Var'Nic, as pointed out by katadder, is excellent. I have a running debate with Ripple about it; personally, I feel it is superior to the Hyperion, and that's a good ship. Leverages CBD well, 4 die long-range beam, Hull 6 (perfect vs. Centauri), fast, 2 45's. Love it.
While the Ka'Tocs get the press, the Thentus and the T'Rakk deserve more love than they're getting. The Thentus is a 2/45 mugger that neds to get to range 15. It's not fast, but the good news is that the lower sped makes it turn faster. Tons-o'-guns. The T'Rakk has OK guns --- nothing fabulous, but is very large and can Close Blast Doors efficiently. This makes it frickin' enormous well suited for combat-initiative sinking. It has 2 45's also.
The G'Vrahn is still awesome, even with the changes.
The G'Karith is the total fighter answer at Raid-level. Two of these in a large fleet with their ability to CBD pretty much takes all fighter-based tactics off the table, while leaving the Dag'kars to fire on ships instead of fighters. A specialist craft, granted, but capable of bad things as the fight gets closer to War priorities.
And, oh yeah, the Dag'kar. In small fights, less than impressive; you might not get two ships with the same emine. At Battle- and War- level fights, there's candy everywhere; it almost becomes hard to find a situation where you can't get two, and you have options to get 3 ships at a time, so you're dumping 18 dice of Triple-Damage weaponry on the table every two turns. Wow! All this and Emines!
The Var'Nic, as pointed out by katadder, is excellent. I have a running debate with Ripple about it; personally, I feel it is superior to the Hyperion, and that's a good ship. Leverages CBD well, 4 die long-range beam, Hull 6 (perfect vs. Centauri), fast, 2 45's. Love it.
While the Ka'Tocs get the press, the Thentus and the T'Rakk deserve more love than they're getting. The Thentus is a 2/45 mugger that neds to get to range 15. It's not fast, but the good news is that the lower sped makes it turn faster. Tons-o'-guns. The T'Rakk has OK guns --- nothing fabulous, but is very large and can Close Blast Doors efficiently. This makes it frickin' enormous well suited for combat-initiative sinking. It has 2 45's also.
The G'Vrahn is still awesome, even with the changes.
The G'Karith is the total fighter answer at Raid-level. Two of these in a large fleet with their ability to CBD pretty much takes all fighter-based tactics off the table, while leaving the Dag'kars to fire on ships instead of fighters. A specialist craft, granted, but capable of bad things as the fight gets closer to War priorities.
And, oh yeah, the Dag'kar. In small fights, less than impressive; you might not get two ships with the same emine. At Battle- and War- level fights, there's candy everywhere; it almost becomes hard to find a situation where you can't get two, and you have options to get 3 ships at a time, so you're dumping 18 dice of Triple-Damage weaponry on the table every two turns. Wow! All this and Emines!
Foxmeister
Mongoose
My only issues with the fleet (as a whole) are:
1. Not one of the Battle variants, in my opinion, is worth taking, ever! - even with the suggested changes. Whilst you can disagree with that, the "G'Quan sucks" poll currently supports my view. No point going into the specifics of it here, since it has been well stated multiple times elsewhere.
2. The Rongoth/Rothan serve no purpose whatsoever - they might just as well not be there. The same applies to the G'Sten but to a much lesser extent. Again, my opinion, but once again it seems most players seem to think much the same.
3. G'Vrahn could stand to lose SL on it's e-mine and gain OS, and the opposite on the Bin'Tak.
Other than this, IMHO, it's a great fleet, and out of all of these it's (1) that I think truly deserves attention this time around though you might just as well do (3) since the G'Vrahn is being "adjusted" anyway.
Assuming Matt is receptive to the feedback from this forum, I don't think that the Narn 4+ CBD is going to live to see the final printed output, so something "cool" for the Narn for P&P is still required though I still rather favour my proposal for the G'Quans beam since it kills two birds with one stone.
Regards,
Dave
1. Not one of the Battle variants, in my opinion, is worth taking, ever! - even with the suggested changes. Whilst you can disagree with that, the "G'Quan sucks" poll currently supports my view. No point going into the specifics of it here, since it has been well stated multiple times elsewhere.
2. The Rongoth/Rothan serve no purpose whatsoever - they might just as well not be there. The same applies to the G'Sten but to a much lesser extent. Again, my opinion, but once again it seems most players seem to think much the same.
3. G'Vrahn could stand to lose SL on it's e-mine and gain OS, and the opposite on the Bin'Tak.
Other than this, IMHO, it's a great fleet, and out of all of these it's (1) that I think truly deserves attention this time around though you might just as well do (3) since the G'Vrahn is being "adjusted" anyway.
Assuming Matt is receptive to the feedback from this forum, I don't think that the Narn 4+ CBD is going to live to see the final printed output, so something "cool" for the Narn for P&P is still required though I still rather favour my proposal for the G'Quans beam since it kills two birds with one stone.
Regards,
Dave
hiffs rongoth variant:
Ron’Gar class torpedo Destroyer (Rothan Varient)
Following the second Liberation of Narn from Centauri Occupation, the Narn fleet was in tatters, with only a few ships still in active service. With aid from the newly formed interstellar alliance, the Regime was able to begin design work on the Mighty KaBinTak and the G’Vrahn as it’s premier warships. However large gaps existed for small escort and attack vessels. As pragmatic as ever, the Narn recovered a number of their older designs from storage, and re-fitted them for new duties. The First ship to undergo the refit was the venerable Rothan, despite being over 50 years old the design was still solid, and easy to re-fit.
Turns: 2/45°
Speed: 8
Special: Anti-Fighter 2
Craft: None
Hull:5
Troops:3
Damage: 24 / 6
Crew: 32 / 8
ISD: 2265
Ion Torpedos Forward 30 4 Precise Super AP
Medium Plasma Cannon Forward 10 4 AP Double Damage
there was another one but at the time I think we decided it was unbalanced.
Ron’Gar class torpedo Destroyer (Rothan Varient)
Following the second Liberation of Narn from Centauri Occupation, the Narn fleet was in tatters, with only a few ships still in active service. With aid from the newly formed interstellar alliance, the Regime was able to begin design work on the Mighty KaBinTak and the G’Vrahn as it’s premier warships. However large gaps existed for small escort and attack vessels. As pragmatic as ever, the Narn recovered a number of their older designs from storage, and re-fitted them for new duties. The First ship to undergo the refit was the venerable Rothan, despite being over 50 years old the design was still solid, and easy to re-fit.
Turns: 2/45°
Speed: 8
Special: Anti-Fighter 2
Craft: None
Hull:5
Troops:3
Damage: 24 / 6
Crew: 32 / 8
ISD: 2265
Ion Torpedos Forward 30 4 Precise Super AP
Medium Plasma Cannon Forward 10 4 AP Double Damage
there was another one but at the time I think we decided it was unbalanced.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Interesting. A CBD monster, yes. But, it's not a Ka'Toc or Thentus, and the main weapon is 4 dice of single-damage stuff that can be intercepted.
Might even be a little light (comparing to updated Demos). I'll think on it. Of course, until Matt includes it for playtest, it's Out Of Scope.
Might even be a little light (comparing to updated Demos). I'll think on it. Of course, until Matt includes it for playtest, it's Out Of Scope.
