Zhodani Naval Doctrine

[ottarrus]

I've been wondering about the Zhodani Consular Navy and its combat doctrine.

First off, we know that the Third Imperium is not the only military opponent the Consulate has ever faced. While we have no idea what opposition the Consulate may have faced on its Spinward frontier [the Consular Province of Meqlemianz], we do know they've faced scattered resistance to Rimward in Far Frontiers and Yiklerdanz Sectors and there are canon references to naval combat with polities along the Core Route. However, most sources hold the Third Imperium as the single greatest military threat the Consulate has ever faced.

It is a truism in military history and the study of strategy that most states adapt the tactics and organization of their toughest and most successful enemies. But in the Fifth Frontier War, the Consulate has not done this. Their naval tactics and organization is VERY different from the Imperial Navy's. Most of this can be based on the great differences between two societies, especially in the area of senior leadership. OTOH, after four previous bites at the apple where their best result was a draw, you'd think the Zhos would take a page out of the Imperial handbook.

Part of it can be budgetary and TL related... After all, if you're trying to get the maximum number of spinal mounts into battle as possible, cruisers are simply cheaper than battleships. 'Cheaper' does not always mean 'cost effective' however. It is clear that the Consular Navy deeply favors generalist ships over specialist ships. Because their ships are smaller and designed to be multi-task, they should not be as effective in combat as larger specialist vessels of a higher tech level.

In these opening moves, the Zhos have the advantage of being collected in their force packages and their officers are fully briefed on what their strategic and tactical goals are. The Imperium, OTOH, is scrambling to catch up. They have a divided leadership chain and their commanders are following Alert orders with little real idea of just where to report with their assets to be most effective. The Corridor Fleet is rushing headlong to the fray under orders to 'Get to Macene with everything you can spare'. The Deneb Fleet is a bit more informed but Santanocheev doesn't have a complete idea of what he wants to do with the fleets reporting to him. And the Zhodani are completely aware of this.

So, the Zhos have designed a fleet that can easily be broken into penny-packet raiding squadrons that can easily deal with any star system that isn't a major fortress world. And there are quite a few worlds in the Spinward Marches, even high-tech high-pop worlds, that only have local forces to defend themselves with.

All of this makes me wonder two things:
1. Who did the Zhodani encounter where these tactics and organization models provided the Consulate with an advantage?
2. Are the Zhodani planning to penetrate Imperial defenses and then scatter one of their top-rank fleets into raiding squadrons to keep Imperial industry and commerce [both absolutely necessary to prosecute a war with] off balance even after this war's conclusion?

 

[Condottiere]

Superficially, it sounds like a patrol force being reorganized into a combat one.

If they weren't on such good relations with the Vargr, you might assume a lot of those might have been punitive raids against them.

Or, maybe that's why they are on such good relations, the Vargr have grown to respect the stick, and the carrot is used to guide them to raid the Imperium, instead.

 

[Geir]

Hate to look at it from an accounting standpoint (but who has the budgets? they do!) The Zhodani spend a lot more years and effort on the Core Expeditions than on the Frontier Wars (especially if you add up the years of 'use') and they don't have a separate scout service. So a warfighter can easily be retired long before it sees and real use. Centuries pass. It makes more sense from a Consulate-wide point of view to concentrate on the generalist vessels because they'll see more use. And they're fine against the occasional Vargr rogue state.

But when the war comes, those vessels are less than optimal. So not a great strategy, but that's my take on 'why'.

 

[Geir]

Of course now the coffee finally kicks in and I have more to say.

Speaking just about the first four wars: They're Frontier wars: One little corner of the Consulate fighting one little corner of the Third Imperium. Sure they want to keep the nasty degenerate Vilani-Solomani Industrial Complex from expanding and it would be nice to kick them back to Corridor, but the last wars have been more or less draws, and overall, it has pushed the Imperium back a bit and stopped their expansion, so it's been cost-effective enough.

The difference for the Fifth, though, is the Zhodani are facing a tsunami (get it 'Wave'? get it?) of existential threat and at least some of them think there's something at Rhylanor that might save their society from immanent collapse. Now that's a whole different ball of Chirpers... (never mind, what was in that coffee?) So if that's the case, they NEED to switch from a First Imperial Vilani "We've been here for thousands of years and we'll see this threat off, too" sort of attitude about the Imperium to a "kitchen sink and all the dishes (?)" massive operation with the entire force available focused on this war. Which is why I don't like the status-quo-ante-bellum offical result. It seems like a "Oh, yeah, never mind, we'll try again later" sort of thing for the Zhodani, and there is no later.

(Or they realize the best use of the fleet is to try to control their own disintegrating consulate - so I could be wrong)

 

[G'Naakbusters]

Making balls out of Chirpers is exactly the sort of conduct that will bring the Consulate's displeasure upon you.

 

[Geir]

Making balls out of Chirpers is exactly the sort of conduct that will bring the Consulate's displeasure upon you.

Reading about the Tezcat in the latest Aliens book, it sounds exactly like what the Tezcat would do. Just don't make them too spice... the... oh, never mind...

 

[G'Naakbusters]

OTOH, after four previous bites at the apple where their best result was a draw, you'd think the Zhos would take a page out of the Imperial handbook.

Would they? A draw is a perfectly suitable outcome for them, since the Zhodani's major motivation seems to be resisting potential Imperial expansion into their backyard. The Consulate, unlike the Imperium, doesn't seek to expand (except along the core route); it wants to be the biggest fish in its lake and keep the other, more aggressive big fish from challenging it. (Okay, it's not that simple, the Zhodani are a superpower after all and throw their weight around and meddle as much as any such power, but still...)

A full-on "win" would surely require Zhodani expansion to manage the territories abandoned by the Imperium (be they actual claimed Imperial space or just within its sphere of influence), lest those regions become dens of chaos. That seems more trouble than it's worth (and is one of the reasons why I'd like to see a Zhodani win in the FF5, because the Consulate will be left scratching its head and unsure what to do with its victory, which seems more rewarding to me than the alternative. The Zhodani will be left holding a win and it will presumably bother them greatly).

 

[Geir]

I'd like to see a Zhodani win in the FF5, because the Consulate will be left scratching its head and unsure what to do with its victory, which seems more rewarding to me than the alternative. The Zhodani will be left holding a win and it will presumably bother them greatly).

And then we can play the Resistance against the evil mind-reading overlords!

 

[Jame Rowe]

Reading about the Tezcat in the latest Aliens book, it sounds exactly like what the Tezcat would do. Just don't make them too spice... the... oh, never mind...

They brought the Tezcat back? Oh. Oh, joy. /sarcasm

 

[Condottiere]

The Jeune École ("Young School") was a strategic naval concept developed during the 19th century. It advocated the use of small, heavily armed vessels to combat larger battleships, and the use of commerce raiders to cripple the trade of the rival nation. The idea was developed among French naval theorists: the French government had the second largest navy of the time, and the theorists desired to counteract the strength of the larger British Royal Navy.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Of course now the coffee finally kicks in and I have more to say.

Speaking just about the first four wars: They're Frontier wars: One little corner of the Consulate fighting one little corner of the Third Imperium. Sure they want to keep the nasty degenerate Vilani-Solomani Industrial Complex from expanding and it would be nice to kick them back to Corridor, but the last wars have been more or less draws, and overall, it has pushed the Imperium back a bit and stopped their expansion, so it's been cost-effective enough.

The difference for the Fifth, though, is the Zhodani are facing a tsunami (get it 'Wave'? get it?) of existential threat and at least some of them think there's something at Rhylanor that might save their society from immanent collapse. Now that's a whole different ball of Chirpers... (never mind, what was in that coffee?) So if that's the case, they NEED to switch from a First Imperial Vilani "We've been here for thousands of years and we'll see this threat off, too" sort of attitude about the Imperium to a "kitchen sink and all the dishes (?)" massive operation with the entire force available focused on this war. Which is why I don't like the status-quo-ante-bellum offical result. It seems like a "Oh, yeah, never mind, we'll try again later" sort of thing for the Zhodani, and there is no later.

(Or they realize the best use of the fleet is to try to control their own disintegrating consulate - so I could be wrong)

So the Zhodani knows the wave is coming. They also know through their spy network that the Imperium knows something is up thanks to their "secret" monitoring stations.

The Zhodani have now had the chance to study the wave, and have some idea about what it does. They know it will flatten the Imperium after it flattens the Consulate.

So to stop the wave they don't bother to use their psionic scrying machine that shows the future.
They don't bother to use diplomatic channels to gain access to Rhylanor.
They don't use a team of highly trained maxed out psi spec ops (PCs) to go and locate the Rhylanor device.
They don't mass every ship in the Zhodani Navy, every soldier, every scout and launch a massive invasion that the Imperial forces would not be able to resist.

Nope.

With an existential threat on their doorstep they choose to launch a war that only has an evens chance of being successful.

As piss poor ideas go this is poor and reeks of piss. The consulate big wigs deserve what's coming to them.

 

[ottarrus]

Would they? A draw is a perfectly suitable outcome for them, since the Zhodani's major motivation seems to be resisting potential Imperial expansion into their backyard. The Consulate, unlike the Imperium, doesn't seek to expand (except along the core route); it wants to be the biggest fish in its lake and keep the other, more aggressive big fish from challenging it. (Okay, it's not that simple, the Zhodani are a superpower after all and throw their weight around and meddle as much as any such power, but still...)

A full-on "win" would surely require Zhodani expansion to manage the territories abandoned by the Imperium (be they actual claimed Imperial space or just within its sphere of influence), lest those regions become dens of chaos. That seems more trouble than it's worth (and is one of the reasons why I'd like to see a Zhodani win in the FF5, because the Consulate will be left scratching its head and unsure what to do with its victory, which seems more rewarding to me than the alternative. The Zhodani will be left holding a win and it will presumably bother them greatly).

A full win for the Zhodani is pushing the Imperium back two full subsectors to a rough line of Aramis, Rhylenor, Mora, and Glisten subsectors with a binding agreement that everything between Cronr and Aramis /Aramis is no man's land. Now, most Consular strategists, at least the realistic ones, know that this is a pipe dream. Every single thing in their plans would have to succeed in spectacular fashion in order for this to happen. Unfortunately, the 'bad guys' are professionals too and are fighting with significant advantages and despite the best efforts of the Zhodani Consular Navy, they've only achieved moderate success.
Thus far, the Zhos have deflected and parried Imperial expansion but Jewell/Jewell is entirely too close for comfort. In 1107 they've fought 4 wars over 500 years with only moderate results at huge cost to the things that are important to them, namely social stability, the core expeditions, and the exercise of soft power and influence in the areas they don't control. What's more, every time they start a war with the Imperium they damage the social fabric of the very people they want to absorb... conquering and absorbing Jewell, Efate, and Regina and succeeding in the 'Zhodanification' of their societies would increase Consular power immeasurably. But that would cost the Province of Iadr Nsobl generations of intense, dedicated, and expensive work. Consider: it's taken the Imperium 100 freaking years to pacify most of the Solomani Rim sector, and that just getting most of the terrorism to stop! That's not convincing the hundreds of billions of sophonts that the Solomani Cause is fundamentally wrong. And that's the task the Consulate will have to do in order to fully absorb conquered Imperial territory in the Marches. That would mean that Iadr Nsobl's contributions to the Core Expeditions would be negligible.

 

[G'Naakbusters]

They brought the Tezcat back? Oh. Oh, joy. /sarcasm

I detect both nihilistic acceptance of what is and contemptuous distaste for it, which are entirely in keeping with the Tezcat mentality. I will suggest you be Incarnated immediately.

 

[Geir]

That's not convincing the hundreds of billions of sophonts that the Solomani Cause is fundamentally wrong.

See, there is where the Third Imperium and the Zhodani Consulate could cooperate. All it would takes is a few (hundred) Consulate reeducation camps and the Solomani will see there error of their ways. What ways? I don't remember any ways... what a nice hat you have there.

But again, I think they have been taking a not so much 'barbarians at the gate' approach, but a 'barbarians in our neutral zone' approach to the whole Imperial expansion thing and they pretty much have that problem managed. It's just that big bad Wave is different. I don't expect their shipbuilding doctrine or even warfighting doctrine to change, but I do expect the quantity of resources devoted to the war to be ramped up considerably.

What I find less believable about the whole thing is that with trillions of people and thousand of years of psionic research, they couldn't come up with some sort of way to mitigate the risk, at least for their own populace. They must have known about it for thousands of years. I don't know when they found about about a Rhylanor McGuffin, but I suspect that would be much more recently.

 

[ottarrus]

And then we can play the Resistance against the evil mind-reading overlords!

See also, 'Soft Berth, or What to Do When the Zhodani Attack' in JTAS 9....

 

[ottarrus]

See, there is where the Third Imperium and the Zhodani Consulate could cooperate. All it would takes is a few (hundred) Consulate reeducation camps and the Solomani will see there error of their ways. What ways? I don't remember any ways... what a nice hat you have there.

But again, I think they have been taking a not so much 'barbarians at the gate' approach, but a 'barbarians in our neutral zone' approach to the whole Imperial expansion thing and they pretty much have that problem managed. It's just that big bad Wave is different. I don't expect their shipbuilding doctrine or even warfighting doctrine to change, but I do expect the quantity of resources devoted to the war to be ramped up considerably.

What I find less believable about the whole thing is that with trillions of people and thousand of years of psionic research, they couldn't come up with some sort of way to mitigate the risk, at least for their own populace. They must have known about it for thousands of years. I don't know when they found about about a Rhylanor McGuffin, but I suspect that would be much more recently.

Well I think you're presuming the Rhylenor 'thingy' exists in this edition. I personally thought it was kinda dumb in in the Mongoose 1e Zhodani book. OTOH, it wasn't as dumb as some of the stuff in the Darrians book, so there you go....
Metaplot McGuffin's aside, Rhylenor and Mora are both major strategic targets for the Zhodani. Presenting a viable threat to those worlds would quickly bring the Imperium to the negotiating table and that is the endgame the Zhos are looking for.

 

[ottarrus]

Of course now the coffee finally kicks in and I have more to say.

Speaking just about the first four wars: They're Frontier wars: One little corner of the Consulate fighting one little corner of the Third Imperium. Sure they want to keep the nasty degenerate Vilani-Solomani Industrial Complex from expanding and it would be nice to kick them back to Corridor, but the last wars have been more or less draws, and overall, it has pushed the Imperium back a bit and stopped their expansion, so it's been cost-effective enough.

The difference for the Fifth, though, is the Zhodani are facing a tsunami (get it 'Wave'? get it?) of existential threat and at least some of them think there's something at Rhylanor that might save their society from immanent collapse. Now that's a whole different ball of Chirpers... (never mind, what was in that coffee?) So if that's the case, they NEED to switch from a First Imperial Vilani "We've been here for thousands of years and we'll see this threat off, too" sort of attitude about the Imperium to a "kitchen sink and all the dishes (?)" massive operation with the entire force available focused on this war. Which is why I don't like the status-quo-ante-bellum offical result. It seems like a "Oh, yeah, never mind, we'll try again later" sort of thing for the Zhodani, and there is no later.

(Or they realize the best use of the fleet is to try to control their own disintegrating consulate - so I could be wrong)

And yet in the current Fifth Frontier War book, MJD clearly states that the vast majority of the battle squadrons the Consular Navy is deploying were pulled from other fronts... it's the literal equivalent of pulling battle squadrons from Ley Sector to fight in the Marches... it would take them better than a year to get to their start lines. OTOH, the crews of the ships will be trained to fare thee well, as sharp a spear as the Qlomdlabr has ever had in its hand.
But somebody in those other sectors is gonna notice all the battleships missing and that could become a problem. This war is HUGE risk for the Consulate.

 

[Jame Rowe]

I detect both nihilistic acceptance of what is and contemptuous distaste for it, which are entirely in keeping with the Tezcat mentality. I will suggest you be Incarnated immediately.

Don't the steppe lards excuse me I mean no really I don't mean lords not have peesionics?

 

[Geir]

Don't the steppe lards excuse me I mean no really I don't mean lords not have peesionics?

You know, introducing the K'kree and the Tezcats at a diplomatic party can make this whole Fifth Frontier War thing seem like a minor misunderstanding. In fact I would be happy to introduce a small (or moderate) party of Tezcat mercenaries to the Gateway Sector.... for, ah... some reconnaissance in force.

 

[MasterGwydion]

You know, introducing the K'kree and the Tezcats at a diplomatic party can make this whole Fifth Frontier War thing seem like a minor misunderstanding. In fact I would be happy to introduce a small (or moderate) party of Tezcat mercenaries to the Gateway Sector.... for, ah... some reconnaissance in force.

I was thinking send the Aslan Ihatei to Gateway, but either would be fun. The Aslan love to hunt things that can hunt them back.