CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Nah, not this information. The
The Incredible Rhylanor Grand Reverse
- Thread starter Lyrell'e
- Start date
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
I read his response as being Marc didn't make that information known to the Zhodani or any of several other groups. Only Norris' secret squirrels. YMMV
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Or, if we want to have a rebellion, go with Marc's original plan:
(Fair use, since it's a crappy copy of a copy of a fanzine - this taken from p.136 of "This is Free Trader Beowulf" (or Beowilf?
))
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
Or, if we want to have a rebellion, go with Marc's original plan:
View attachment 3918
(Fair use, since it's a crappy copy of a copy of a fanzine - this taken from p.136 of "This is Free Trader Beowulf" (or Beowilf?
It is a much more believable/better outcome.
Any indication of who finally ended up on the Iridium Throne in that timeline?
Margaret?
Lucan?
The "Real" Strephon? (And is he real?)
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
I have no interest in a backswing story [1] set in Charted Space.
[1] A story in which the author kills off most of the population of the world (here, worlds) so the hero will have room to swing his sword. Coined by James Davis Nicoll, I think.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
I'm in favour of it being Lucan, so we can have a distant 'Evil Empire' and make Sigtrygg happy (ish).
An interesting thing on the map is the "Epire of Deneb" one would assume Norris, but clearly no longer paying lip service to the Imperium. Pressured by Vargr, Zhodani, and Aslan, that could be a contentious region. Would he make his own Dukes, Counts and other nobles?
Another 'fun' campaign could be a follow-on PoD where an empire was established, but now it needs to fight or negotiate with the Aslan. Drinax could fall, or stand alone as an island of stability, or even end up in control of Tobia.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Agreed. Virus does that. Wave does that. (I'm afraid a 2300AD Invasion will do that - the original did) The Rebellion doesn't necessarily do that. It was just handled poorly, with nothing useable until Chuck Gannon came around with Hard Times. Which coincidently is the period after 1125.
If done right, the period 1116-1125 could be done at a more playable scale, but the way it was done: advancing to 1120 and having Glisten and beyond already overrun was and still is annoying. On the other hand, a 5FW wargame with another set of scenarios on the same map and ruleset set for the Rebellion era could be tons of fun. You could even have starting positions based on the outcome of the 5FW board game.
And if you wanted ihatei taking down a high population world, you could do it Invasion Earth style: Or at least on a 1000 kilometre per hex world map. You'd end up with a scattering of resisting worlds and not a neat line on a map. Same on the Coreward frontier with Vargr bands perhaps overrunning low population worlds, but fighting on or bypassing high population worlds. Add in a breakdown of command with nobles and admirals fending for themselves, especially in Deneb sector, and it could be a completely chaotic mess with tons of room for adventure and both large and small scales.
Ah, the Dark Canon.
It has been said that there were once Traveller veterans who discovered the Dark Canon. They were never heard from again...
AndrewW
Emperor Mongoose
Those are only rumors, anyone that subscribes to these rumors is ill and best served by going through re-education.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
There's a ward just for them at St Grog's Home for Aged Gamers. They have to be attended to solely by deaf orderlies and nurses, because the things they mutter to themselves send anyone else running to Human Resources and then to the hills. St Grog's once reached out to the Zhodani Consulate to inquire after psion therapists; they got a nice note from the Tavrchedl' reading "we can't work miracles".
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I'd worry about resurrected undead sucking the lifeforce out of the game.
ishldgetoutmore
Mongoose
Not just rumors! I heard it from Darth Plagueis the Wise, so you know it's true! Or, at the very least, truthy!
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Marc knows the answer to your question, and so does Mongoose. Given how Mongoose has chosen to approach the outcome of the 5FW, and their approach to Canon over the last 17 years, I'm not sure if that answer is part of an upcoming 5FW book or not.
(quick aside while I see if the answer is hinted at in MGT1 Zhodani)
Hmm. the answer to that is "sort of". A small part of that story has changed since then.
Without going into the gritty details, the Zhodani knew they *had* to use the Rhylanor Controller. Why they couldn't use their own is a story with several possible plot twists, some of which are not mutually exclusive. The 5FW was, per Marc, the last unilateral gambit to that end. After that failed (in the original CT continuity), the Zhodani approached Norris and made their case, which he eventually accepted. Remember, he had been Naval Intelligence in the Consulate; he likely knew what the Controllers could do if set incorrectly.
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It was not one of Don's best ideas by a long shot.
If the Zhodani need the device on Rhylanor then they commit their entire fleet to taking it and holding it long enough to use the device. This whole "war as a diversion" is totally ridiculous. Or if you want to involve PCs then they use an infiltration team of tricked out psionic agents (PCs) to take it.
If on the other hand you need it to be switched on for years then you have to negotiate, the war is a waste of time, lives and resources.
At this point it would be better for the wave to have been dealt with by the kryptonians that appear at the end of the Ancients trilogy.
Or better yet declare it all alternative universe quantum foam reality manipulation and it no longer exists within the Mongoose Third Imperium.
If the Zhodani need the device on Rhylanor then they commit their entire fleet to taking it and holding it long enough to use the device. This whole "war as a diversion" is totally ridiculous. Or if you want to involve PCs then they use an infiltration team of tricked out psionic agents (PCs) to take it.
If on the other hand you need it to be switched on for years then you have to negotiate, the war is a waste of time, lives and resources.
At this point it would be better for the wave to have been dealt with by the kryptonians that appear at the end of the Ancients trilogy.
Or better yet declare it all alternative universe quantum foam reality manipulation and it no longer exists within the Mongoose Third Imperium.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
This is only really a problem because the original authors never took the time to figure out how psionics actually works within the setting. We have the same problem with how jump drives work, except they actually made several attempts at that, with varying degrees of success and/or disaster.
Lurking Grue
Cosmic Mongoose
What I don't understand is the need for these setting altering (or shattering) meta-plots in the first place. What is the perceived advantage of building a setting, in which many players like to play in, and then setting it on fire, then warping it completely out of shape, and last hitting it with a psionic shockwave (of sorts)? If you want to kill the setting, that sure is the way to do it.
IMHO, both the Virus and the Empress Wave are prime examples of why meta-plots are usually terrible ideas. Unless you are an absolute meta-plot wizard and know what you are doing, it's usually better to leave big meta-plots out. If you (for some reason) absolutely want meta-plots in a setting, it's better to keep them relatively small-scale and think of their repercussions before implementing them. For the most part, making your setting explode and then implode in on itself in not a Good Idea(tm). The rebellion I can somewhat swallow as a way to introduce conflict to the setting (which some might have seen as too stable and/or stagnant, I didn't), but it should have been handled much better than how it was - and there should have been an end to it other than a title card saying "100 Years Later...".
(As an aside, I remember being intrigued about the EW when next to nothing was known about it, but once I found out what it was/is, I was so disappointed by it - yet another "setting killer" - and also glad that GDW never got to go anywhere with it. Also, they already had Twilight 2000, why did Traveller have to become a similar 'aftermath of a massive disaster' setting too?)
IMHO, both the Virus and the Empress Wave are prime examples of why meta-plots are usually terrible ideas. Unless you are an absolute meta-plot wizard and know what you are doing, it's usually better to leave big meta-plots out. If you (for some reason) absolutely want meta-plots in a setting, it's better to keep them relatively small-scale and think of their repercussions before implementing them. For the most part, making your setting explode and then implode in on itself in not a Good Idea(tm). The rebellion I can somewhat swallow as a way to introduce conflict to the setting (which some might have seen as too stable and/or stagnant, I didn't), but it should have been handled much better than how it was - and there should have been an end to it other than a title card saying "100 Years Later...".
(As an aside, I remember being intrigued about the EW when next to nothing was known about it, but once I found out what it was/is, I was so disappointed by it - yet another "setting killer" - and also glad that GDW never got to go anywhere with it. Also, they already had Twilight 2000, why did Traveller have to become a similar 'aftermath of a massive disaster' setting too?)
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
There is a reason for that. The literature that influenced Traveller had many examples of psionics, but I don't recall any of them ever explaining any of them. I suppose it is up to individual referees to decide the whys and hows of psionic abilities within their setting.
I think that once again it is left vague enough for the referee to make it unique to their setting.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The seeds of the Empire's collapse were planted in the early adventures and supplements, but the first real metaplot was the FFW which ruined the setting for me.
The rebellion era was likely just one of several possible collapse options - the Third Imperium was heavily influenced by Foundation after all. I disliked the handling of the rebellion and tat I had to wait several years for hard Times to come along with a PC scale setting.
I agree, it's one of the reasons the GT Lorenverse was so well liked by some.
Virus is much maligned by "computer experts" who are certain that computers can't do that sort of thing...
I have posted at length about how I hope rebellion would be done by Mongoose, the truncated version is:
have a series of adventures getting PCs involved with the Imperial court and the Moot
have PCs involved with the assassination and its fall out (even if they prevent it there is still a whole domain in open revolt, and Norris behind the claw building his own empire, add a Solomani Confederation attack while the Imperium is distracted and you still get the rebellion era)
have options for the referee as to how it will all turn out.
MWM and Don/Mongoose have it as a setting killer, the original intent behind the wave was to double down on psionics within the setting - or even give referees the option of removing them once and for all...)
I would love to have seen the empress wave treatment that Dave Nilsen outlined come to pass.
Very different settings to me. T2000 is a post apocalypse survival game. TNE is an exploration, rebuilding and mystery solving game. Set it in the Regency and you have a TL16 polity with psionics to potter about in. Set it in the RC and you are in a TL12 pocket empire with technical support from the Hive Federation setting out to explore, rebuild etc. or there is the most interesting option, you start on a world that has been cut off...
my main complaint about TNE is that it is too close in time to the rebellion era, it should have been pushed back another century or two.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Empires tend to fall due to internal factors.
External ones just tend to accelerate that.
External ones just tend to accelerate that.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
And it's not like you couldn't have some of that if you wanted it. 1105 is not that long after the Long Night, especially out in the sticks like Trojan Reach or Empty Quarter. There's worlds where they're still banging the rocks together.
