collins355
Cosmic Mongoose
soft bunk actually, but a cool adventure anyway for the military oriented Traveller player.
Zhodani Naval Doctrine
- Thread starter ottarrus
- Start date
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Don't forget the Aslan. They would be SO miffed to miss the party!
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
@Geir Getting to your important point about why won't the Zhos and Imperials cooperate...
Because they both deeply fear and to some extent despise the other's entire social structure and outlook. It's literally like asking the West to play 'kiss and make up' with a Communist or Fascist regime. Both sides have legitimate suspicions and share a painful past history that cost a significant number of lives. This distaste and distrust make even mutually beneficial agreements hard to negotiate.
This is a case where MM and Frank Chadwick were spot freaking on insofar as international /interstellar relations are concerned.
Because they both deeply fear and to some extent despise the other's entire social structure and outlook. It's literally like asking the West to play 'kiss and make up' with a Communist or Fascist regime. Both sides have legitimate suspicions and share a painful past history that cost a significant number of lives. This distaste and distrust make even mutually beneficial agreements hard to negotiate.
This is a case where MM and Frank Chadwick were spot freaking on insofar as international /interstellar relations are concerned.
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
This is why humanity is a plague that deserves to be wiped out.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Life, ALL life, divides itself in to two groups, Us and Them. And whenever it comes to a vote 99.99% of the time people vote for Us not Them.
Everything is finite, nothing is forever, and the more I have the less you get. And in order for something to live, something else has to die. It's called 'evolution', and it's an unforgiving mistress.
This, of course, doesn't mean that humans don't do some incredibly stupid stuff. I mean, consider the entire careers of Justin Bieber and Kanye West, and that's not even getting into politics!
However, for all the idiots and assholes out there, there are some remarkably good and decent Human animals running around. IIRC, Gwydion, you live in Washington State like I do. It was only 7 months ago that four friends LITERALLY 'jumped into the middle of a cat fight' and fought off a cougar attacking their friend while they were on a trail ride. During COVID a whole bunch of people stepped up to take care of people they were unrelated to during lockdown.
G'Naakbusters
Emperor Mongoose
Because they experience such things as painful history and legitimate suspicions?
Or because they won't collectively do what an ego wants them to do or agree with the perspective it wants them to have, and if other people won't conform to or validate an ego, those people revoke their claim to meaning or legitimacy, and so misanthropy is the result?
Yaskoydray was a very, very smart Droyne but he never did get over that strange, un-Droynelike urge to be the controlling centre, the singular core. To the point that when everyone and everything wouldn't conform to his wishes he ended up making his own pocket universe revolving around him rather than live in the real one
EDIT: Misanthropy is a strange thing. It is good to identify common weakness and seek to improve, or to have desires for avoiding what one sees as pitfalls, but we are all products of a strange evolutionary process millions of times larger than any one of us. We are riding atop an ocean of biological, chemical, social, psychological, historical factors that shape who people are and how they work; there are distribution curves and outliers and clusters and we cannot control what is, only what we try to build with it. When we arrive at conclusions that seem useful but find that they aren't held by a large enough majority, or simply by our nature act or think in certain ways that a number of others apparently don't, it's easy to become frustrated. But why should the whole be judged for not being what we have decided we want it to be?
As for the matter of cooperation, humans are immensely cooperative. I didn't build the building I live in, I don't power it, grow or hunt my food, fetch my water, make my clothing, construct my furniture, create the language I'm using here... I benefit from an incredible number of spinning plates maintained by a hugely elaborate cooperative process. There are clearly a number of flaws and failings, especially when trying to accommodate literally billions of people -- and I'm not a fan at all of the prevalent workings of the overall system that's come to define the planet, but those are the result less of human cooperation itself being broken and more of a minority of predatory types exploiting and rewiring it for their benefit. Indeed, one of the problems is that most humans seem to find it very hard to really understand the predatory mindset and so system defense against it is in its relative infancy.
Be like the Blissful Warrior himself -- promote the Nice, gently admonish the Naughty, and give a great belly laugh at the joy and frustration of life.
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
If your whole race is greed-focused, this is true. If your whole race is compassion-focused, then everyone has what they need. It also only takes a few greedy ones to ruin it for everyone else.
I live in Honduras and before that, Florida. Basically, look at every problem the world has today. All of them were created by humans. Everything else lives in balance and harmony, just not Us. One Einstein or Marie Curie, doesn't out weight 1 billion narcissists. As long as greed exists, then the human race is doomed.This, of course, doesn't mean that humans don't do some incredibly stupid stuff. I mean, consider the entire careers of Justin Bieber and Kanye West, and that's not even getting into politics!
However, for all the idiots and assholes out there, there are some remarkably good and decent Human animals running around. IIRC, Gwydion, you live in Washington State like I do. It was only 7 months ago that four friends LITERALLY 'jumped into the middle of a cat fight' and fought off a cougar attacking their friend while they were on a trail ride. During COVID a whole bunch of people stepped up to take care of people they were unrelated to during lockdown.
That why I almost never play greed-based campaigns. Too close to real life. I even tell My players before they join My campaigns, "If all you want your character to do is to become rich and powerful, then this is not the campaign for you."
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Volcanos, earthquakes, forest fires, tsunami, epidemics, extreme storms, droughts, flooding, asteroid impact...
Nature is not balanced nor living in harmony. Survival of the fittest (as in best adapted to current environmental conditions). Animals (and plants) are in contestant completion for the resources to stay alive and reproduce.
Nature is not balanced nor living in harmony. Survival of the fittest (as in best adapted to current environmental conditions). Animals (and plants) are in contestant completion for the resources to stay alive and reproduce.
G'Naakbusters
Emperor Mongoose
I'm pretty sure the Permian Extinction wasn't us.
More to the point, nature is only "in balance" or "in harmony" because of brutal realities like "there was a volcanic eruption meaning the local herd is thinner now, so more of your pups are going to die."
Humans are sapient and tool-happy enough that they've rather rudely found themselves in a strange position that no creature has evolved for, where we get to (or have to, like it or not) question all of that. We don't have to submit to the balance of nature (the downside is that it's easy to then cause different and just as serious problems through reckless tool-using and escapism). We don't have to die at age 25 of a tooth abscess. Now, a lot of people still do (or equivalent), because as said there hasn't yet emerged a system both robust enough to encompass a planet/billions of people and secure enough not to be bogged down in the fears and traumas of those who have come to control it.
The thing is... all the greedy, predatory, overly aggressive people... misanthropy is *their* outlook. That's what defines them. "All those people who refuse to validate me -- me, the centre of the universe! -- who threaten my comfort and control!" It's easy to justify mistreating other people and their communities if you tell yourself that those people are a mistake, deserving only of contempt. Misanthropy is the poison that feeds upon itself, for when the offence is the existence of others they will always live down to one's expectations.
Not wanting to skirt into matters of politics, etc., but I'd say most of the world's biggest problems stem from misanthropes who have rigged the great and wonderful mass-plate-spinning contraption that is human civilization due to their... let me be arrogant and call it their malfunction. It's dangerous because it feeds upon itself. After all, having filled the corridors of influence and power with people like themselves, they assume all people are like them. Thus they fear even further not being secure, not being in control, not having *more* (or, better, *all*).
One thing I agree with you on is that, yes, it's hard, because one predatory person can spoil it for many -- the pacifist's dilemma, etc. In the past, when the people who mattered were the 150 or so you knew and lived with, the solution was obvious: throw the bad apple out and let other tribes/the elements/rabid weasels deal with them. But we're at a point where "the people that matter" has to be "everyone in the world" simply because our technology/knowledge/the complexity of our plate-spinning now touches the entire world. And making that system work without exploitation, conflict, etc., is *hard*. Why wouldn't it be? Clearly a fair few couldn't deal with it at all, which is why they've created a global political-financial system that desperately clings to a "me and mine against the world" misanthropy... and that is making it harder still.
Please don't think I'm promoting some airy-fairy "everybody is nice really" pseudo-optimism. I'm just saying that judging how the current batch of overly-emotional monkeys are dealing with the *deeply bizarre* circumstances they find themselves in is... well, it's subjective.
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ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Sorry about misplacing you, Gwydion. Another person on the boards here is a fellow mossback and I got you two confused.
I don't think the points I made were all about 'greed'. Far from it. Life is competitive and conflict ridden. That isn't positive or negative, it just 'IS'. Life competes to live, predation is necessary to feed the living. This is not accumulation for accumulation's sake. The 'balance' and 'harmony' you speak of is exactly the same thing that I'm speaking of in regards to life and death. Even plants rely on their own dead to become mulch to feed the next generations.
And to be honest, I've never understood why people find this so depressing. This is the 'Circle of Life' the kids sing about in the Disney movie and there isn't a single thing wrong with it.
G'Naakbusters
Emperor Mongoose
Mufasa deserved to die as unrepentant G'Naak.
*That* is the real harsh truth of life.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I actually agree with pretty much all of this. Well said!I'm pretty sure the Permian Extinction wasn't us.
More to the point, nature is only "in balance" or "in harmony" because of brutal realities like "there was a volcanic eruption meaning the local herd is thinner now, so more of your pups are going to die."
Humans are sapient and tool-happy enough that they've rather rudely found themselves in a strange position that no creature has evolved for, where we get to (or have to, like it or not) question all of that. We don't have to submit to the balance of nature (the downside is that it's easy to then cause different and just as serious problems through reckless tool-using and escapism). We don't have to die at age 25 of a tooth abscess. Now, a lot of people still do (or equivalent), because as said there hasn't yet emerged a system both robust enough to encompass a planet/billions of people and secure enough not to be bogged down in the fears and traumas of those who have come to control it.
The thing is... all the greedy, predatory, overly aggressive people... misanthropy is *their* outlook. That's what defines them. "All those people who refuse to validate me -- me, the centre of the universe! -- who threaten my comfort and control!" It's easy to justify mistreating other people and their communities if you tell yourself that those people are a mistake, deserving only of contempt. Misanthropy is the poison that feeds upon itself, for when the offence is the existence of others they will always live down to one's expectations.
Not wanting to skirt into matters of politics, etc., but I'd say most of the world's biggest problems stem from misanthropes who have rigged the great and wonderful mass-plate-spinning contraption that is human civilization due to their... let me be arrogant and call it their malfunction. It's dangerous because it feeds upon itself. After all, having filled the corridors of influence and power with people like themselves, they assume all people are like them. Thus they fear even further not being secure, not being in control, not having *more* (or, better, *all*).
One thing I agree with you on is that, yes, it's hard, because one predatory person can spoil it for many -- the pacifist's dilemma, etc. In the past, when the people who mattered were the 150 or so you knew and lived with, the solution was obvious: throw the bad apple out and let other tribes/the elements/rabid weasels deal with them. But we're at a point where "the people that matter" has to be "everyone in the world" simply because our technology/knowledge/the complexity of our plate-spinning now touches the entire world. And making that system work without exploitation, conflict, etc., is *hard*. Why wouldn't it be? Clearly a fair few couldn't deal with it at all, which is why they've created a global political-financial system that desperately clings to a "me and mine against the world" misanthropy... and that is making it harder still.
Please don't think I'm promoting some airy-fairy "everybody is nice really" pseudo-optimism. I'm just saying that judging how the current batch of overly-emotional monkeys are dealing with the *deeply bizarre* circumstances they find themselves in is... well, it's subjective.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Utopia is a goal, not a myth. Also, it is the journey towards the destination that is important, not the destination itself.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
No worries. Without the internet, I would likely forget where I was. lol
Name one animal, other than humans, that hoards 90% of their "wealth" in less than 1% of their population. Competition for resources for survival, be it animal or plant is far different than Greed. I can comfortably survive in Honduras on 60k a year, in the US for about 240k a year. So, anymore than 240k a year in Honduras or 1 million a year in the US crosses the line from survival competition to just plain Greed with a capital G, not the lesser g of survival-required greed.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
If you do not think nature is not in harmony or balance, you have not studied science beyond the High School level. Volcanic soil? Richest on Earth for growing plants. Forest Fires? Again, rich soil afterwards. All life requires change in order to survive. Change is driven by environment. Extreme changes to the environment, cause species to adapt, to improve. The more adaptable a species is, the greater its survivability on a geological scale. Humans only exist because of the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. They couldn't adapt rapidly enough. Humans and other species could and did. This is the balance I am talking about. Everything in nature has its balance. Burning the whole world with nuclear fire would kind of prevent any of that. As would destroying the earth's ability to produce oxygen. None of the things that you have mentioned that occur naturally operate on that scale.
When you get to the celestial-level of time, then you have things like supernovas and blackholes, which redistribute their matter and create new stars, new life, etc. The process begins again. All of it is in balance. All of it works together in harmony.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The Zhodani are controlled by brain worms.
G'Naakbusters
Emperor Mongoose
No, that's the Tau (according to some theories).
The Zhodani are controlled by brain worms.
Tau and Zhodani... there's an interesting encounter. Respect for a fellow faction of sanity or instant enmity? Also ironic in that the Tau are the faction *without* psionics...
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
In the early eighty-second century of the Unrecalibrated Common Era it became obvious to temporal physicists that neither the Permian nor K-T extinction events where entirely natural. The temporal record was full of unexplained energy spikes.
After 27 years of effort, the Temporal Research Institute build the first machine capable of multi-million year time travel. Unfortunately, they did not take into account limitations in the year-span reach of the Temporal Non-Interference Circuit (TNIT) and their research expeditions, which were simultaneous because the new world government had cut their funding for fiscal year 8137 and they had to go 'now' - or risk temporal interference by going to the past in the past, but that's another dead-end subplot - set out from the year 8136 UCE.
The long and the short of it is, the drilling sampling process from the Permian Expedition caused a Lorentz-event-driven set of occurrences cumulating in world-wide mega-eruptions. The Cretaceous Expedition's drilling was not as bad; it only caused the Deccan Traps, but the flyby of a moderate sized comet was enough to induce a slight changing in its trajectory that lead, a few short tens of thousands of years later, to the Chicxulub impact. Funding was restored in 8138, but after the mass arrest of senior scientists and administrators, follow-up expeditions to fix the problem were cancelled.
-Reconstructed straight timeline history of the Temporal Research Institute, Year 6, Free Time Era
