It’s never been that clear cut. While the Traveller system is separate it’s still driven by the needs of charted space. The lion share of sales are most definitely charted space so the system adapts to support it because that’s where the money is. You may want the two completely separate but that’s just not practical or realistic. This is the reason why all the core books are either centered on charted space or strongly lean there.
Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works
- Thread starter Geir
- Start date
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Sure, but Robots at least showed what fabricators could do up to TL23 and took up very little space and text.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Mongoose says differently. At least they have said differently to Me.
Have you read the books. They give a completely different picture
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Is requiring a sophont astrogator in the main rules or in the Charted Space rules?
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
ALIENS OF CHARTED SPACE VOLUME 2
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Perfect. That is a setting book.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
So the answer to the question "Is requiring a sophont astrogator in the main rules or in the Charted Space rules?" is it is buried in an obscure supplement, and contradicts 40+ years of setting canon.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
The Third Imperium setting book has a megacorp courier that has staterooms for an OPTIONAL crew. So, there is a setting book saying the opposite.Perfect. That is a setting book.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
It is still a setting book though, correct? It is not in one of the main rulebooks. Right?
Yeah. There needs to be quality control to prevent writers from breaking the rules because they feel like it and leaving the rest of the community to clean up and/or rationalize their mess.
So you find one thing and think that proves your point? WOW great way to cherry pick. How about this High Guard a core rule book is completely useless for 2300 if the core books are setting Agnostic than that should not be the case in fact the only thing you can use for 2300 are parts of the core rule book. This is a perfect example of my statement 2300 is a Traveller setting but since it’s tech is so different than the charted space setting it’s required to have its own gear/ship design books as well as major modifications for the vehicle book. Even Robots while more useful still requires 2300 books to support its use in 2300.
It’s only natural that the core books be more in line with Charted Space since Charted Space is by far the biggest selling point of the game. Look at the three vehicle catalog books they are all considered core books but are really charted space books. Charted Space was originally created as a setting for Traveller it’s just makes sense that the line between the two very vague to nonexistent
Another request
Currently, Manipulator Arms are set at human-level strength (max 15). Could this vary dependent on vehicle size? I mean, where's the fun in designing a walking mecha that's 50-foot tall and only has a strength of 15?
Maybe we could classify them like cranes (light to extra-heavy) with a corresponding ability to lift weights? That way the Aliens-inspired Cargo Lifter could have 2 'Light Mech Arms' and be able to lift 1 ton with each arm (2 in total). That would make it a much more useful walking forkilft,
Currently, Manipulator Arms are set at human-level strength (max 15). Could this vary dependent on vehicle size? I mean, where's the fun in designing a walking mecha that's 50-foot tall and only has a strength of 15?
Maybe we could classify them like cranes (light to extra-heavy) with a corresponding ability to lift weights? That way the Aliens-inspired Cargo Lifter could have 2 'Light Mech Arms' and be able to lift 1 ton with each arm (2 in total). That would make it a much more useful walking forkilft,
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Already in the draft:
The STR value of a heavy manipulator arm is equal to the number of Spaces in the vehicle and is only relevant when computing damage from a heavy manipulator arm melee strike. An arm inflicts damage equal to 2D + 1D for every 10 STR (or Spaces), rounding up. The number of Spaces consumed, and the Cost of a heavy manipulator arm are based on vehicle Spaces. An arm’s dexterity is based on the Tech Level of the vehicle, not necessarily the minimum Tech Level listed in the table.
That's first draft... reading right now, I think I want to also do like the robot arms and make it stronger if you through money at it. I kept the 'regular' ones from the old book, where 2 Spaces eaten gives you STR 15 at TL10, but that's an arm bigger than a motorcycle , so it is still too little.
Thanks for bringing it up... I'll expand on that, but your 50-foor robot would probably still be STR 50 even without a revision.
J. L. Brown
Emperor Mongoose
Higher TL arms ought to be stronger for the same volume.
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
not nessicarrily
the lever type that arms used are really really bad
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Fair enough.
Updated draft language of the whole section (and no I didn't proof it very carefully yet, so if it's hopelessly inconsistent, let me know.)
-----
Manipulator Arms
A manipulator arm is a remote appendage, culminating in a claw or mechanical hand. These can vary greatly in size, strength and dexterity. Normally, a driver or other crew control these arms using a waldo, though remote or robot control of arms is also a possibility on vehicles that support it. All manipulator arms require a powered vehicle.Robot-Sized Manipulator Arms
Smaller vehicles (four Spaces or less) may install robot arms created using the rules in the Robot Handbook (pages 25-28). Up to four vehicle-installed robot manipulators can be installed using one vehicle Space. A vehicle sized at one Space may install two Size 5 (or smaller) manipulators without using its only Space.If desired, a vehicle larger than four Spaces could install additional robot arms using a Space for every four arms.
Manipulator Arm
In most cases vehicles larger than four Spaces require longer reach and more internal space to support a ‘shoulder’ socket than is available with a robot arm. These arms are listed in the Manipulator Arm table, with Spaces and Cost per arm. An arm’s dexterity is based on the Tech Level of the vehicle, not necessarily the minimum Tech Level listed in the table. The STR value of these manipulator arms can be increased by +1 for each doubling of the Cost of the manipulator arm to a maximum of +5 or 32 times the listed Cost.Manipulator Arms
| Manipulator Arm | TL | STR | DEX | Spaces | Cost |
| Primitive | 5 | 7 | TL-3 | 1 | Cr1000 |
| Basic | 7 | 12 | TL-3 | 1 | Cr2000 |
| Improved | 8 | 12 | TL-2 | 1 | Cr5000 |
| Enhanced | 9 | 15 | TL-1 | 2 | Cr10000 |
| Advanced | 10 | 15 | TL | 2 | Cr15000 |
Heavy Manipulator Arms
Large vehicles can install even larger arms that are the equivalent of dexterous cranes on forklifts. These arms can individually pick up and hold objects up to 50% of the vehicle’s Spaces or 250 kg for every Space of the vehicle. For instance, a vehicle of 64 Spaces with two arms can use both together to pick up one object of up to 64 Spaces or 32000 kilograms. This increases by one half Space (round down) and 250 kg for each Tech Level above 10.The STR value of a heavy manipulator arm is equal to the Tech Level plus the number of Spaces in the vehicle. As with smaller manipulator arms, STR can be increased by +1 for each doubling of the Cost of the manipulator arm to a maximum of +5 or 32 times the listed Cost. Each increase of STR also increases the carrying capacity of the arm by half of a Space and 250 kg. STR is also relevant when computing damage from a heavy manipulator arm melee strike. An arm inflicts damage equal to 2D + 1D for every 10 STR, rounding up. The number of Spaces consumed, and the Cost of a heavy manipulator arm are based on vehicle Spaces. An arm’s dexterity is based on the Tech Level of the vehicle, not necessarily the minimum Tech Level listed in the table.
Vehicle-sized manipulator arms have too little surface area, and vehicles are too massive to allow these arms to cling to a surface with like a robot with gecko grippers, but a vehicle with two or more heavy manipulator arms can theoretically use these arms to lift itself and climb a vertical surface, assuming there are handholds large enough to grab.
Heavy Manipulator Arms
| Manipulator Arm | TL | DEX | Spaces* | Cost per Vehicle Space |
| Basic | 7 | TL-3 | 5% | Cr1000 |
| Improved | 8 | TL-2 | 5% | Cr2000 |
| Enhanced | 9 | TL-1 | 4% | Cr5000 |
| Advanced | 10 | TL | 3% | Cr10000 |
Manipulator Arm Weapons Mounts
Any manipulator arm can have an attached fixed weapon mount (see page XX). The firing arc of a manipulator arm fixed mount is determined by the reach of the arm, which is normally 180 degrees, though a top-mounted arm may have a full 360 degree arc of fire, and arms mounted on two-legged walkers may benefit the rotation of ‘hips’ to increase the firing arc.Fixed mounts attached to manipulator arms have weapon size limits based on the size of the arm. Limits for robot arms are described in the Robot Handbook on page 61. Regular-sized manipulators are limited to weapons requiring 1 Space or massing less than 250 kg. A heavy manipulator arm can support a weapon equal to 20% of its Spaces, rounding up, or 250 kg of weapons per for every 5 Spaces or fraction thereof.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
That's why you should lift with your legs...
I can see better counterbalancing (robot butt moving back? counterweights poking backwards at shoulders and elbows?) possibly helping, but don't stand right behind the lifterbot...
Technetium 98
Banded Mongoose
I'm not sure a direct STR value for the vehicle manipulators is a good idea - these would be used in 20-ton war machines that can pick up and throw smaller vehicles, there shouldn't be a point of comparison with your average joe. With bespoke rules for how much damage they deal and how much they can carry, what does a STR score actually signify?
