Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works

[coolAlias]

And a certain experiment showed Newton was wrong.

Michelson–Morley experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is neither here nor there, but I love reading about these kinds of experiments.

A book of condensed version of scientific experiments throughout history, aka "How We Know What We Know," would be so much fun, especially if there were one for kids that I could both understand and use to teach my kids real science, i.e. the scientific method rather than just the usual fun "experiments" one finds in kids' science books.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The fact that Geir ran into a need to have questions about weapon design answered while rewriting the Vehicle Handbook is an excellent indicator that all the gearheads who want to design stuff will also encounter those questions. There is a real need to limit the VHU to just vehicles, sure -- and that is perfectly fair and reasonable. But whatever gets published as a result of this hard work needs to able to work with High Guard, Robots, and all the other design sequences in ways that are consistent and make sense.

The Vehicles Handbook Update needs to track the volume, energy, and combat effects for everything. If Starship weapons do 10x the damage at vehicle scale, then a block of starship armor on a vehicle should be 10x 'spaces' as 'dTons' -- otherwise Mongoose is just writing more trouble for itself. Scaling matters, so take the opportunity now, while writing an Update, to solve the problems created by previous material -- and if that means there needs to be some Errata for previous material, then so be it.

After reading two of Matt's responses this morning (maybe he is having a bad day?), I am starting to lose faith in Mongoose. Geir does good work, so it is not his work that is an issue. Matt, you have a good writer writing rules for vehicles and vehicle combat, but you don't want rules for vehicle-scale weapons such as cruise missiles or running someone over with a vehicle? Great! Let's write a vehicles book with no offensive combat rules in a game where the largest rules sections are the combat sections. I think I am missing something here. What is your goal here Matt? You guys already did a weapons book and it was horrible. Matt, you were the editor on that book and you let it pass with almost zero quality control. It didn't conform well to how weapons worked in Traveller, it doesn't work with any of the other rule books and it is god-awful for actually trying to create weapon designs.

So, unless the plan is to completely write a book for just weapons for all three scales (personal, vehicle, and ship), then where else would you put vehicle weapons and combat rules other than in the vehicle handbook? At this point I haven't read or heard anything that suggests a complete rewrite of the Field Catalogue is forthcoming.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Probably in the next full rewrite edition.

To get the whole lot consistent means starting from first principles.

There was never going to be a 202x update of vehicles, now there is.

A wholescale fix needs soothing a lot more than the band aid Geir is valiantly trying to apply.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Probably in the next full rewrite edition.

To get the whole lot consistent means starting from first principles.

There was never going to be a 202x update of vehicles, now there is.

A wholescale fix needs soothing a lot more than the band aid Geir is valiantly trying to apply.

Perhaps, yes, but Geir is amazing with his band-aids!

 

[Sigtrygg]

I totally agree

 

[Condottiere]

I was surprised anyone wanted to try to fix Mongoose Second Vehicles.

 

[agentwigggles]

Pretty sure we have running over someone rules right now. Its the ramming rules.
Its pretty bad for most sophonts.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Pretty sure we have running over someone rules right now. Its the ramming rules.
Its pretty bad for most sophonts.

Oh cool! I did not know that, but I kinda figured that last part. lol

 

[agentwigggles]

1d6 per speed band when striking a sophont

 

[Condottiere]

Air bags and crumple zone.

 

[Geir]

Air bags and crumple zone.

Yes, there was no accounting for simple protections like airbags - though it does mention seatbelts.

I added some collision protection options for occupants, and noted that they might be required for licensed vehicles on certain worlds - as would an autopilot and a transceiver tied to the central traffic control. Try racing that g/bike through the streets of Credo on Regina and you might be in for a surprise redirect to the nearest Public Order Commission precinct headquarters...

 

[AndrewW]

I added some collision protection options for occupants, and noted that they might be required for licensed vehicles on certain worlds - as would an autopilot and a transceiver tied to the central traffic control. Try racing that g/bike through the streets of Credo on Regina and you might be in for a surprise redirect to the nearest Public Order Commission precinct headquarters...

But officer I was transporting Geir to the Regina outpost of Mongoose Publishing, he just has to get their to open the new vehicle manufacturing factory.

 

[Geir]

FYI, finished the first edit pass today and built five relatively standard 'stock' Core vehicles as a test... causing some more edits... You know, most of the designs in the Core book and Vehicle Handbook don't seem to actually follow the rules as written very well. The g/racer especially is a head scratcher. I kept a version of it, but I'd rather (and I will), build a TL12 Speeder. Only 94 vehicles left to go (there are also 2 example vehicles in the text - a TL13 G/Van and a rather uncomfortable TL7 amphibious assault vehicle)

 

[Technetium 98]

You know, most of the designs in the Core book and Vehicle Handbook don't seem to actually follow the rules as written very well.

preaching to the feckin' choir

 

[Sigtrygg]

The only designs I have ever been able to reproduce using the rules as written were the ships in CT. Everything since - S:9 onwards have had "issues"... you get the occasional design that comes close.
I think the issue is usually a combination of:
different interpretations of the design sequence
authors using a pre-production version of the design system that is changed
deadline is approaching, fuck it its close enough.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[laughdad]

VLS cells for AGM 114, FGM-148s, and/or Stinger missiles fitted in lieu of infantry in an IFV chassis...

US20030089220A1 - Multi-purpose missile launcher system for a military land vehicle - Google Patents

A multi-purpose missile launcher system for a military land vehicle that has the capability for direct targeting both short and medium range land targets, as well launching missiles against longer-range land targets or air targets using indirect targeting. The multi-purpose missile launcher...

patents.google.com

 

[Terry Mixon]

You might need to add the Zed-PM, Geir.

MSN

Pre-Order the Ecat SKLep SSM (100 W) – Order E-Cat Products

ecatorders.com

 

[laughdad]

Okay, so I'm about a third of the way through my first edit pass and as I'm looking over supercavitating drives, it occurs to me that they would work better for torpedoes than for submarines, because cost and stealth. And then I realise there is no section for actually making vehicles into weapons. Duh. Need to throw in some rules, figure out how to deal with no-space warheads (should do more than a grenade) , guidance (easy, it needs Controls and Navigation. The End.) and figuring out if a one Space 250 kg warhead can be appropriately scaled. nd then scaled up. And how big a nuke needs to be (plenty of info on that one, actually... Tsar Bomba here we come... ). Tomorrow.

(Well at least I already added convertible (soft/hard top, manual/automatic) as options yesterday. Another duh.)

Right...the difference between a cruise missile and what we think of as ISR drones is a very blurry line. There's a lot of history about turning conventional manned aircraft into target drones, we have long-range steerable bombs (seeker heads, GPS guided, or inertial guided).

As for nuclear weapons, do a WIKI on the "Davy Crockett" missile and the M388 nuclear warhead that went on the front of the thing. The 388 was also the "backpack nuc" and the Atomic Demolition Munition ("ADaM"). The W48s and W82s were 155mm howitzer-fired nuclear weapons with a Wiki yield of .1kt and up to 2kt respectively. I can't comment on whether Wiki has that right. The W88 warhead is still, I believe, the gold standard for "crowd pleasers" at 475Kt yield and use as the MIRV on the Trident missiles.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Payload.

2. Outside of some very dedicated people, you generally want to be outside the effect radius of the weapon system you triggered.