Turrets, Barbettes, and multiple hits

[Jak Nazryth]

First I want to apologies for posting so many questions, but I just got the new rules and just signed up yesterday...

When you have 2 or more weapons in a single turret (3 pulse lasers) and you hit an enemy ship, do you roll each laser separately for damage, or do you roll 6d6 and add all the damage up? That's a spread between 12 max points and 36 max points! I'm sure you roll each pulse laser separately, take off armor, then apply the damage on the hit table.
I can't find anything in the core book or high guard (yet) that mentions specifics. Or do you roll 2d6 but simply get an extra +1 to hit for each weapon (up to a +2 for a 3 weapon turret)?

Can you fit 3 particle beam weapons in a normal turret? Other Traveller variants have sizes like a 1 space, 1.5 space, and 2 space weapon etc...
In the core Mongoose I can't find how many turret spaces a particle beam takes up. GURPS uses the "turret space" rule. Normal lasers are 1 space, Plasma cannons are 1.5 space, and I think PBeams are 2 space weapons

On Barbettes, since they are discribed as larger versions of turret weapons, can you fit up to 3 enlarged weapons in 1 barbette?
A PBeam barbette takes 5 tons of space and does 4d6. So can you fit 2 enlarged "4d6" PBeams in a single Barbette, taking up 5 tons?

Fixed Barbette - Since you can mount a normal weapon to the hull, and save 1 ton of space because of no turret, can you mount a barbette to the hull, and only use 4 tons of space, since the turret component is removed?

Also... what happened to Plasma Guns? Mongoose has Fusion guns, but no Plasma. I think it would be easy enough to incorporate the plasma guns from other Traveller variants into turret and barbette spaces for Mongoose... Just a thought.
All the questions I'm asking will be incorporated into the design of several "adventure" ships for my players.

Thanks for any input!

 

[hdan]

Some answers:

Re: the "multiple weapons per turret damage" thing. I'm not sure. The way I like to do it (which is unofficial but makes sense) is to allow multiple identical weapons to fire "linked" and roll their damage together (though they share a To Hit roll as well). A triple laser turret becomes pretty useful under this system, but the particle weapon still has the range advantage.

The HG Errata says you can only have one Particle Beam per turret, and that turret has to be a triple turret.

I'm pretty sure barbettes can only hold one weapon.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

Are there mining lasers anywhere in Mongoose yet?
Beltstrike maybe?

 

[AndrewW]

Are there mining lasers anywhere in Mongoose yet?
Beltstrike maybe?

Alien Module 2: Vargr has one.

 

[barnest2]

Beltstrike has mining drills which can be fitted to turrets. You can use man portable versions or mining drones as well.

As for your questions:

1) I would roll each damage separately and take armour of each weapon.

2) Three weapons in a normal turret, other than P-beams which you can only fit one of.

3)Barbettes hold one weapon. It's like a micro-bay.

4) I have been thinking about fixed barbettes... I would say yes, 4 tons for a fixed one. But of course you would have to roll a pilot check to bring them on target.

5) Plasma guns... I never read any older versions (or any version other than MGT) so I've never seen them. And I don't really see the need. P-Beams are your hard hitters, pulse lasers are your cheaper main gun, and beam lasers are your point defence. Where would plasma guns sit?

 

[Jak Nazryth]

In traders and gun boats, and also in Merchants and Cruisers, (Both got Brand New today from Mongoose) they have several examples of ships with 3 particle Beams in each turret. Perhaps the 1 PBeam per turret rule is for Barbettes only. Has to be or the Mongoose guys broke their own rules on ship creation.... oops!

A plasma gun has higher damage than a particle beam, but a very short range. In Mongoose terms it would be classified as a close range weapon, short at most.
In other versions of Traveller you can arm fast, heavily armored gun ships to take the punishment by flying down the throat of an enemy ship, then unloading a massive alpha strike right in their face. Max range is only 1200 km.
In GURPS they are 1.5 space weapons (2 in one turret max)
I did a quick conversion and it looks like it would do 3d6+3 or maybe 4d6 damage in Mongoose terms. It's just the range sucks. But they are great on the right type of ship.

 

[locarno24]

When you have 2 or more weapons in a single turret (3 pulse lasers) and you hit an enemy ship, do you roll each laser separately for damage, or do you roll 6d6 and add all the damage up? That's a spread between 12 max points and 36 max points! I'm sure you roll each pulse laser separately, take off armor, then apply the damage on the hit table.

Take the armour off the damage from each hit.

That's why you're paying so much more in both cash and space for a 6d6 weapon (Particle Bay Mount - 20 MCr, 50 dTons) than 3 2D6 weapons (Triple Pulse Laser Turret - 2.5 MCr, 1 dTon) - because the armour gets subtracted 3 times from the latter, which is why a 'proper' warship with armour 12+ is all but immune to civilian guns unless it's taken some armour hits.

Fixed Barbette - Since you can mount a normal weapon to the hull, and save 1 ton of space because of no turret, can you mount a barbette to the hull, and only use 4 tons of space, since the turret component is removed?

a) No, there's no fixed mount barbette-calibre option at the moment. Barbettes aren't (quite) turrets, so the turret special options don't apply.

b) It's never been entirely clear if the fixed mount means a fixed mount weapon takes up no space or just no extra space. The 1 dTon is supposed to be fire control gear/gunner's compartment/etc that you'd need no matter how the weapon is mounted in the hull.

In traders and gun boats, and also in Merchants and Cruisers, (Both got Brand New today from Mongoose) they have several examples of ships with 3 particle Beams in each turret. Perhaps the 1 PBeam per turret rule is for Barbettes only. Has to be or the Mongoose guys broke their own rules on ship creation.... oops!

Oops indeed. Traders and Gunboats author has previously said this himself. Merchants and Cruisers I'm assuming the same - note that I don't think these aret written by the core book authors.

A plasma gun has higher damage than a particle beam, but a very short range. In Mongoose terms it would be classified as a close range weapon, short at most.

Fusion gun bay or railgun barbette/bay* is your best bet in currently released rules. If wanting a custom turret weapon I'd go with 4d6 for the turret mount with the same restrictions as the particle beam.


* The only other published short range weapons I can think of are the sandcaster and the magnetic harpoon, but neither of these are 'blow them up' guns.

 

[barnest2]

Ah I see. Well railguns have replaced plasma weapons then. Maybe the guys decided that plasma guns weren't hard science enough :lol:

Also, yeah, a lot of people didn't get the memo about no triple p-beams any-more. Lots of designs still have them. Hell, I would probably still use if I didn't have a big thing for particle barbettes. But its there in high guard, mongoose just broke their own rules...

Ah! I found it. It's in the high guard errata
"Only one particle beam may be fitted per turret, but it must be a triple turret"
Lots of people just don't look at the errata. But its there.

And of course barbettes can only have one weapon... they are a single weapon

 

[locarno24]

And of course barbettes can only have one weapon... they are a single weapon

True. Although I did like the Nova in Warships of Babylon 5 - many, many double-barrel barbettes*. Yummy.



* If you actually work through the design numbers, they're actually just twice that number of single barbettes and just called that for fluff purposes. But damn it, it's cool!

 

[AndrewW]

In traders and gun boats, and also in Merchants and Cruisers, (Both got Brand New today from Mongoose) they have several examples of ships with 3 particle Beams in each turret. Perhaps the 1 PBeam per turret rule is for Barbettes only. Has to be or the Mongoose guys broke their own rules on ship creation.... oops!

Oops indeed. Traders and Gunboats author has previously said this himself. Merchants and Cruisers I'm assuming the same - note that I don't think these aret written by the core book authors.

Traders and Gunboats was written before the High Guard errata (or LBB2: High Guard).

Merchants and Cruisers wasn't done by the core rulebook authors. It's an error if there are turrets with 3 particle beam weapons mounted in a single turret.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

OOPS!
That's why my player O-BLIT-ERATED the pirate ship in the mock space fight! :shock: LOL. won't they be disappointed when they find out they can't have triple PBeam turrets.
Thanks for the clarity. And I must say, the graphics in Merchants and Cruisers are several steps below the core books. Doesn't look like a professional publication IMO, but that's just me.

 

[barnest2]

OOPS!
That's why my player O-BLIT-ERATED the pirate ship in the mock space fight! :shock: LOL. won't they be disappointed when they find out they can't have triple PBeam turrets.
Thanks for the clarity. And I must say, the graphics in Merchants and Cruisers are several steps below the core books. Doesn't look like a professional publication IMO, but that's just me.

As in the external drawings? I can promise they're professionally done (kinda) by a freelancer who posts here. They're done in sketch-up mainly. But I think he's good

 

[zero]

I wonder if I can post this here rather than making another topic out of a related matter.

Firstly, I've more or less finished my Cstars orbital ship (lots of goodies in its design atm too!), but have come to a problem when it comes to deckplanning the Railgun Barbette I placed in its hardpoint.

I realise a Railgun is 5dtons (4 of which is the armament, 1 is 20 shots of ammunition), but I cant see any Barbettes that have been deckplanned in High Guard so I'm not sure how to plot it.

Usually with a turret, I have one square shown on the deckplan for where the gunner goes and draw a little turret around it, like in the Traveller Core. I expect the Railgun will take up more space in/on a ship.

As far as I can tell, Chthonian Stars deckplans it as having the dtons take up an equivalent number of squares internally as a Weapons Control Room, with the actual Railgun barrel drawn as part of the hull silhouette round the deckplan. There is a station in this room for each type of weapon if on a ship with more than one hardpoint and weapon (like a hardpoint with a Railgun and one with Missiles).

I'm a little stumped as I dont want to deckplan it wrong. Can anyone help or maybe post some type of image to explain?

 

[barnest2]

For a barbette, I would have a 2 ton turret (4 squares).
Have it diagonal to the normal grid, and put a barrel on the corner pointing towards the front.
Help?

 

[zero]

A little, its probably what was done on the Cstars deckplans. I may implement this, thanks

 

[AndrewW]

I'm a little stumped as I dont want to deckplan it wrong. Can anyone help or maybe post some type of image to explain?

It is your deckplan so feel free to draw it out however you would like. The Mongoose Publishing ones have the barbettes take up the amount of squares needed for the tonnage.

As for turrets a lot of the deckplans just put in an iris valve that leads to the turret without drawing in the turret itself. Drawing in each individual turret isn't really needed and if the turrets are say on top that would require another level added. Tends to be the side mounted ones that are drawn in.

 

[zero]

Sure, 5 squares it is, but are the mongoose ones internal, external or a mix of the two?

The Cstars ones have a 5 square room with a station and the railgun barrel is drawn as an external silhouette.

Whats the mongoose ones like?

 

[DFW]

Sure, 5 squares it is,

5 deck squares is 2 1/2 tons...

 

[zero]

Correct, so I dont know if thats ok, but thats whats on the deckplan. I really need an image of a deckplanned Barbette or some better explanation.

 

[AndrewW]

Sure, 5 squares it is, but are the mongoose ones internal, external or a mix of the two?

Internal.

The Cstars ones have a 5 square room with a station and the railgun barrel is drawn as an external silhouette.

Whats the mongoose ones like?

Isn't a specific shape, depends on what fits within the design, just like with bays it can vary.