Trade on the Hierate Route?

[J. L. Brown]

I think, if anyone cares to involve the Florians, then the Imperium - Florian League trade routes will need to be detailed in a similar way.

I am already working up something along those lines in another thread -- but the complete list of products-moving / available-on-loot-tables is not done yet. The obvious approach is to figure up the prices independently, and average them together. That means the Imperium would tend to have close-to-normal (average of above normal and below normal) prices for radioactives and the Torpol - Blue - Arunisiir - Cordan -Wildeman stretch where the routes overlap would reflect slightly more of the Aslan route prices.

A crude first pass:

Commodity	Standard Base price	Fist	Wildeman	Cordan	Arunisiir	Blue	Torpol	Oghma	Thebus	Number One	Acis	Tyr	Caldos	Janus	Connaught	Dpres	Forandin
Radioactives	1000000	989400	990813	992227	993640	995053	996467	997880	999293	1000707	1002120	1003533	1004947	1006360	1007773	1009157	1010600
	<from the Hierate route>	1005600	1003800	1002200	1000600	999000	997400
	<Average price>	997500	997306	997214	997120	997026	996933

A misguided table for going the other way, since the exact list of goods is not finished:

Commodity	Standard Base price	Forandin	Dpres	Janus	Caldos	Tyr	Acis	Number One	Thebus	Oghma	Torpol	Blue	Arunisiir	Cordan	Wildeman	Fist

This is just a test, obviously. We need a list of all of the commonly-exchanged-goods to and from the Florian League to make a complete list. Also, I think trade from the Hierate usually goes from Khteiatloilr to Nora'a; with only the existance of the Glorious Empire responsible for a few goods moving along the Akhwohkyal - Acis - Tyr - Caldos - Janus - Connaught - Dpres - Forandin route.

[Edit: I have been assuming the prices are set by traffic along the J-2 route; and that prices at planets are 'per jump', but neither seem entirely satisfactory. I could probably work up a similar table for J-1 and J-3 trade; at the very least they could be averaged together -- but weighting them is probably more accurate. The problem is that I don't think the information about 'how many more dTons move by J-2 rather than J-3' exists. I think we can assume that there are more J-1 ships than J-2 ships, and more of each of those than J-3 ships. Getting from those assumptions to solid trade numbers seems to involve a lot of fudge. /edit]

 

[MasterGwydion]

I think, if anyone cares to involve the Florians, then the Imperium - Florian League trade routes will need to be detailed in a similar way.

I am already working up something along those lines in another thread -- but the complete list of products-moving / available-on-loot-tables is not done yet. The obvious approach is to figure up the prices independently, and average them together. That means the Imperium would tend to have close-to-normal (average of above normal and below normal) prices for radioactives and the Torpol - Blue - Arunisiir - Cordan -Wildeman stretch where the routes overlap would reflect slightly more of the Aslan route prices.

A crude first pass:

Commodity	Standard Base price	Fist	Wildeman	Cordan	Arunisiir	Blue	Torpol	Oghma	Thebus	Number One	Acis	Tyr	Caldos	Janus	Connaught	Dpres	Forandin
Radioactives	1000000	989400	990813	992227	993640	995053	996467	997880	999293	1000707	1002120	1003533	1004947	1006360	1007773	1009157	1010600
	<from the Hierate route>	1005600	1003800	1002200	1000600	999000	997400
	<Average price>	997500	997306	997214	997120	997026	996933

A misguided table for going the other way, since the exact list of goods is not finished:

Commodity	Standard Base price	Forandin	Dpres	Janus	Caldos	Tyr	Acis	Number One	Thebus	Oghma	Torpol	Blue	Arunisiir	Cordan	Wildeman	Fist

This is just a test, obviously. We need a list of all of the commonly-exchanged-goods to and from the Florian League to make a complete list. Also, I think trade from the Hierate usually goes from Khteiatloilr to Nora'a; with only the existance of the Glorious Empire responsible for a few goods moving along the Akhwohkyal - Acis - Tyr - Caldos - Janus - Connaught - Dpres - Forandin route.

[Edit: I have been assuming the prices are set by traffic along the J-2 route; and that prices at planets are 'per jump', but neither seem entirely satisfactory. I could probably work up a similar table for J-1 and J-3 trade; at the very least they could be averaged together -- but weighting them is probably more accurate. The problem is that I don't think the information about 'how many more dTons move by J-2 rather than J-3' exists. I think we can assume that there are more J-1 ships than J-2 ships, and more of each of those than J-3 ships. Getting from those assumptions to solid trade numbers seems to involve a lot of fudge. /edit]

Although, there is no J-1 route to the Aslan or the Florians.

 

[J. L. Brown]

Although, there is no J-1 route to the Aslan or the Florians.

True; but folks still do mount collapsible tanks in their cargo area to make a multi-jump / multi-parsec crossing. That sort of thing is less routine in the Imperium or the Hierate; but in backwaters like the Islands & the Trojan Reach it may be more common.

That sort of crossing, with 14 J-1, is 14000 Cr per dTon of freight; much more expensive than the 11200 Cr/dTon for the J-2 route, or 10000 Cr/dTon of the J-3 route. A small fraction of trades might still happen that way.

 

[MasterGwydion]

True; but folks still do mount collapsible tans in their cargo area to make a multi-jump / multi-parsec crossing. That sort of thing is less routine in the Imperium or the Hierate; but in backwaters like the Islands & the Trojan Reach it may be more common.

That sort of crossing, with 14 J-1, is 14000 Cr per dTon of freight; much more expensive than the 11200 Cr/dTon for the J-2 route, or 10000 Cr/dTon of the J-3 route. A small fraction of trades might still happen that way.

You do not seem to be taking into account how much cargo space is lost by filling that space with fuel tanks. Or am I wrong?

 

[Anstett]

The entire route (either Florian or Hierate) cannot be done by J1 ships. However I would suspect it is extremely rare for ships to travel the entire Route from start to finish.

There will be lots of small 'last mile (parsec)' things to buy and sell. Bringing in things from the various Clusters to the main trans-shipping point. Get goods from Pourne to Hilfer to Paal for example. Feeding more goods into the trade route.

 

[J. L. Brown]

You do not seem to be taking into account how much cargo space is lost by filling that space with fuel tanks. Or am I wrong?

I am certainly aware that J-1 ships will lose cargo space, and such routes are not optimal. A J-1 Type A Free Trader loses 20 dTons of cargo to 'Mountable tanks'; that takes it from 81 dTons cargo to 61 dTons of cargo -- but a J-2 Type A2 Far Trader only carries 63 dTons of cargo. A J-1 Subsidized Merchant loses 40 dTons, down to 161 dTons of cargo. These use an extra week or more to go two parsecs, but it is workable.

 

[ColinD]

I think, if anyone cares to involve the Florians, then the Imperium - Florian League trade routes will need to be detailed in a similar way.

I am already working up something along those lines in another thread -- but the complete list of products-moving / available-on-loot-tables is not done yet. The obvious approach is to figure up the prices independently, and average them together. That means the Imperium would tend to have close-to-normal (average of above normal and below normal) prices for radioactives and the Torpol - Blue - Arunisiir - Cordan -Wildeman stretch where the routes overlap would reflect slightly more of the Aslan route prices.

A crude first pass:

Commodity	Standard Base price	Fist	Wildeman	Cordan	Arunisiir	Blue	Torpol	Oghma	Thebus	Number One	Acis	Tyr	Caldos	Janus	Connaught	Dpres	Forandin
Radioactives	1000000	989400	990813	992227	993640	995053	996467	997880	999293	1000707	1002120	1003533	1004947	1006360	1007773	1009157	1010600
	<from the Hierate route>	1005600	1003800	1002200	1000600	999000	997400
	<Average price>	997500	997306	997214	997120	997026	996933

A misguided table for going the other way, since the exact list of goods is not finished:

Commodity	Standard Base price	Forandin	Dpres	Janus	Caldos	Tyr	Acis	Number One	Thebus	Oghma	Torpol	Blue	Arunisiir	Cordan	Wildeman	Fist

This is just a test, obviously. We need a list of all of the commonly-exchanged-goods to and from the Florian League to make a complete list. Also, I think trade from the Hierate usually goes from Khteiatloilr to Nora'a; with only the existance of the Glorious Empire responsible for a few goods moving along the Akhwohkyal - Acis - Tyr - Caldos - Janus - Connaught - Dpres - Forandin route.

This is great! The Different Trade Routes you outline really give a reason for the flow of Traders and Travellers. The table shows how the different governments of the Imperium and the Aslan influence those routes. This is what I love about Traveller. When you world build you can go as deep as you want into subjects like astrophysics and economics. I'm currently using the concept of Intra-Industry Trade where the players are transporting (High Quality Beef) Luxury Consumables from a particular rancher on an Agricultural world to a specific restaurant on Hi Population World. It is a side hustle to their tracking of a psionic spy ring.

 

[Anstett]

This is the sort of thing that I build into my game too @ColinD

Related to this thread. In a PoD campaign Drinax manages to divert the trade from Hilfer or Pourne through Drinax to Torpol.

Seller gets a good price, trade goods slide from the Hierate Route to the Florian Route so the Imperium is happy. Drinax is happy to have some more things to tax. The Hierate is losing out on some of the items they want, and might pay more to have them direct shipped.

Lots of ways the Travellers get involved. Privateering/Pirate trade, skimming a bit for protecting the trade, just doing the buying and selling themselves. All with a J1 or J2 ship in the tradition of tramp traders everywhere.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I am certainly aware that J-1 ships will lose cargo space, and such routes are not optimal. A J-1 Type A Free Trader loses 20 dTons of cargo to 'Mountable tanks'; that takes it from 81 dTons cargo to 61 dTons of cargo -- but a J-2 Type A2 Far Trader only carries 63 dTons of cargo. A J-1 Subsidized Merchant loses 40 dTons, down to 161 dTons of cargo. These use an extra week or more to go two parsecs, but it is workable.

Okay. That makes sense to Me. Thank you.