MRQ and character survivability

[Redstone]

I picked up the Runequest book at Gencon this year and I have had a chance to play it a couple of times. One of the concerns of my group is the number of hit points in each body section. If we are reading the rules correctly, your hit points never go up (except for a point or two).

So you are relying on your parry/dodge ability to survive against the tougher opponents?

Either that or you are buying heavier and heavier armor?

If this is correct, how survivable are the characters as they go after the more dangerous opponents? It seems like the odds of losing a limb (or worse) are very high. Is this risk offset by experienced characters having weapon/shield/dodge skills above 100?

 

[Halfbat]

It's a different mindset to the D&D type of world.

Hit Points go up very little, if at all, but your character's ability to avoid or parry blows increases. Yes, ifa blow connects, it can cause the same damage it would to a newbie (which is actually fairly ok and reasonable), but it can be awfully difficult connecting with a top-notch adventurer before be connects with you.

A starting character could (theoretically) buy a 6-point suit of armour. He might have 40% to hit in that suit, a 0% chance of dodging and around a 30-40% chance of parrying AND a Resilience of around 40-50%. A very experienced character in the same armour would have 80-100% chance of hitting, and a similar chance of dodging or parrying and a higher Resilience.

The 40% guy will not last long, despite his layers of tin can.

As for losing a limb - yes it happens, most often the Left Leg for some reason :wink:, but that's why Healing 6 and Regrow Limb spells are so frequently sought after.

 

[Kamelion]

Having played lots of D&D of all stripes, I am finding the crazy lethality of the RQ system very refreshing. It should make for some very tense games and result in characters rightly fearing combat.

Plus I'll be playing Elric, so no healing or regrowing limbs at all there, lol! Good luck finding that Nanorion stone!

 

[zozotroll]

Yes in RQ, the badguys are not little lumps of XP running around to be collected. Other than loot, there is no reason to finish off all of your opponents. Combat should be avoided unless you have to do it.

 

[smiorgan]

In RQ even highly skilled characters can die very quickly.

Because they were outnumbered, outsmarted, or simply because they were extremely unlucky.
Of course, they can dodge, parry, use heavy armor, magical protection and healing spells. But they're still vulnerable.

In Elric/Hawkmoon it is even more so, because there is less protective magic.

I think this is cool. Players become very wary of their opponents, even of those weaker than them. They begin to plan, prepare ambushes, use tactics, overturn tables, jump from the balcony, catch the chandelier to swing across the room (or fall trying), bluff, negotiate, flee!

Deadlier is more fun!

 

[Redstone]

Thats what I thought. I dont have a problem with deadlier combat, but not having your character get tougher as they get more experienced is a different mind set.

On a side note, I was debating using 2 X Dexterity for missile weapons. Any thoughts on this?

 

[weasel_fierce]

A special forces soldier is just as hurt if he gets shot as a green conscript

You can buy up your resilience skill, and weapon skills, as well as get magic defenses and whatnot.


I dont mind ranged weapons being a lower base chance than melee (archery and sling use is really difficult skills), but I cant see any problems with using Dex x2 or Dex+10 or whatnot as the base chance.

 

[zozotroll]

In RQ 1 I lost a Runelord to a peasant with a wooden pitchfork. Missed parry at the same time he critted to the head. Talk about embarassing

Made me much more cafeful from there on out.

 

[Rurik]

Once there was this trollkin...

 

[atgxtg]

It's funny how MRQ seems lethal compared to games like D&D.

To those used to eariler editions and variatorions of RQ, the combat seems more "rubbersword"-ish. Stuff that makes new players go "ow that hurt" would have had you reaching for a new character sheet in the days of lower HP and total HP.

But RQ never revolved around fighting the way D&D did.

 

[TRose]

Its one of the things I do like about Runequest is the way Hit points work. In D&D if an Orc attacks a 10 lvl fighter, the fighter can spend 3 rounds to finish drinking his beer before he responds to the Orcs attack.
But High lvl character in Runequest do have a lot better ability to survive combat, if they play it smart..
First as mention above is skill lvl. If you can dodge the other guys attack he will do no damage
Second is equipment. Unlike D&D you are not given a set of plate as a gift for starting characters, you have to earn good equipment in most games I have played in. But once you get your suit of Chain you are now somebody to be reckoned with. Always buy the best armor you can afford.
And there is magic. One thing I noticed that different from people new to Runequest combat and veteran players is newbies like offensives spells, Veterans often go for defensive spells. Learn 4 points worth of the spell protection, then go into combat and see how much better you do
And last there are hero points. If the Gm smile sand tells you the Great Troll just made a crit with his maul, might decide to spend one there.

 

[RMS]

It's funny how MRQ seems lethal compared to games like D&D.

To those used to eariler editions and variatorions of RQ, the combat seems more "rubbersword"-ish. Stuff that makes new players go "ow that hurt" would have had you reaching for a new character sheet in the days of lower HP and total HP.

But RQ never revolved around fighting the way D&D did.

It is funny how different your perspective and mine must be from someone coming from a D&D background. I'm still complaining how combat in MRQ isn't lethal at all compared to old school RQ2/3 with lower hp, total hp, and no hero points! Though resilience for starting characters does tend to make them go down quicker now than the old dependence on straight CON rolls.

After saying all of that, the amount of magic flying around in a (M)RQ game can greatly affect the actual lethality level. In Glorantha, the magic makes characters, especially experienced ones, very survivable. OTOH, low magic worlds do tend to result in a fair turnover in characters if players insist on fighting everyone. It also tends to encourage a much more practical, tactical approach to combat. My players, even with very experienced characters, will never just charge into combat. Much time and effort is spent "feeling the opponents out", usually with ranged weapons, magic, and frequently a lot of sneaky around ahead of time. "Fair fights" are for idiots in their minds. They stack the odds, and then stack them some more, before they go into combat. Then it's usually done in a few rounds with fairly low mortality, but lots of running and/or surrendering going on...which leads to how the players react when they're on the loosing end: run away to fight another day or surrender and give over a ransom to live for another day. It's very, very different from the D&D mindset. Interestingly, in the long run I've found it to be much less lethal to both sides as nobody wants to finish off their opponent and take a chance on a lucky swing back, and everyone is willing to concede things without fighting to the death. Typically, PC and NPC alike are willing to let their opponent run and are willing to turn and run themselves.

 

[Puck]

I have only actually played the new RQ a couple of times now and I am finding that bows are particularly deadly. In RQ II I remember the arbalest pretty much being a world ender, but I could keep those relatively rare, the equivilant of a magic weapon. It may be just the right mix of crazy situations but bruser characters as well as my primary bad guys are going down almost before the fighting starts...hard to keep balence at a regular basis. Either the scene is anti-climactic( bad guy goes down to quick) or characters are wasting a lot of hero points and ransom cash(an awful lot of the old deus ex machina). As I said though, I have not really had many combats yet to draw any solid conclusions. (I am afraid of anyone learning a high pot magic missle though).

 

[TRose]

One type of Fair fight that I seen more often in RQ then other games are formal duels. After all if we can limit the fight to the 2 biggest guys with best magic and weapons and then only fight till somebody gives up its a lot safer for everyone.

 

[Magistus]

And remember that in RQ it is not uncommon for someone to surrender before being killed, you can then either be ransomed, or ransom the other person off, or as we used to do take their valubles and send them off.

 

[Redstone]

First I wanted to say that I am not a d20 fan. Never was a fan of the attrition style combat. My favorite rpg system has always been Rolemaster, which has a crit system and the potential for death with every blow. But RQ is definately more deadly.

Still waiting to judge the magic system however. The spell selection in the basic book is very limited. I am waiting for the spell book to come out and hear some reviews.

So here is another question for you experienced RQ players. Considering all I have is the Basic MRQ book, what would you reccomend for the next book I purchase? Besides looking for a better spell selection, I am also interested in the cults.

 

[zozotroll]

Both cult books are pretty good. As you are new to the system, the things that bug old guys wont bother you.

Get RQ deluxe. It should be out in about a week. Much better than getting all 3 basic books by them selves.

A lot of the rest of the stuff is setting specific. If you are interested in Glorantha, then Players good will help. The race specific books can wait until you have a good idea if that is the world you want to be in.

I have always been a fan of the setting. There is a huge amount of background on it, and much of it is on the net for free.

When you do get the race books, be sure to get the UZ book first, because, well Trolls ROCK.

 

[weasel_fierce]

Cults 1 and the Companion (or just the deluxe book which has companion and monsters)

If you feel spendy grab Glorantha 2nd age, and Glorantha players guide. A good combo if you want a setting. The Cult book is usefull even if yu arent though

 

[soltakss]

But RQ never revolved around fighting the way D&D did.

What????????

RQ involved a hell of a lot of combat in my University days. We regularly went through Chaos Temples like a dose of salts, leaving behind mountainous piles of corpses and sometimes had combats that lasted hours with 40 or 50 NPCs involved.

Nowadays, I haven't the attention span to do long combats, so I make them short and bloody.

 

[RosenMcStern]

A high level RQ character is likely to have befriended a Chalana Arroy temple, which means availability of Resurrection spells for an affordable price. So the only real trouble is whether you can take back the body to the temple in time to bring him back. Some kind of fire or acid damages, however, can make a body unresurrectable.

As for base % for missile weapons, DEX alone is fine for bows, slings and thrown weapons. Crossbows, OTOH, are far easier to use and should have DEX+DEX or STR+DEX base chance.