Minimal size spinal mount ships.

[barnest2]

I'd like to see something, and it can be either a competition or just a show your ship. I may fight them against each other once all is said and done.

Anyway, what is the smallest hull you can put a spinal mount in?
The ship must meet the following the conditions:
-J2
-One jump-2 worth of fuel
-Must mount a spinal weapon
-Must have a manoeuvre drive.

It may have other weapons, be armoured etc etc. Max tech level is 15.
You're ship must be capable, as well as small as possible.

Any questions?

 

[GypsyComet]

The ship must meet the following the conditions:
-J2
-One jump-2 worth of fuel
-Must mount a spinal weapon
-Must have a manoeuvre drive.

-Must be designed under MGT using standard components.

(TNE lets you build your own spinal weapons. Can't have that.)

 

[AndrewW]

Don't forget fuel for the power plant as well.

 

[GypsyComet]

That could be handled under a general "Must be a functional ship" requirement: Bridge, Power, Maneuver, Jump (J2+), fuel for all installed drives, quarters for all required crew.

You might also want to limit this to standard hull sizes.

If TL adjustments for component size are allowed, this will get interesting quickly.

 

[barnest2]

Additional requirements:
-The ship must be functional. See above
-The ship must be designed using MGT components
-The ship must be built using standard tonnages. No ships of 9,999 tons.
-TL adjustments may be used.

 

[BFalcon]

TBH, using a tonnage of 9,999 tons would be stupid anyhow - I think it specifies somewhere (HG, p 62) that you round up to the nearest tonnage catagory, not down... all you'd do is waste a ton of potential space.

So a 9,999 ton ship would count as a 10,000 ton ship while a 10,001 would count as a 15,000 ton ship but with nearly 5,000 less tonnage to actually do anything with.

Or do you mean that it would (potentially) save money and tonnage elsewhere in terms of P-plant etc?

Edit: Incidently, I'll be sitting this one out - already working on at least 2 designs and I doubt the SCS design would win a battle...

 

[zero]

This sounds cool - I may end up having a crack at this kind of ship, it'll be TL 15 of course (I'm taking advantage of cheap stuff, ta :wink: )

It'll need a P-P rating of at least 2, which works with the J2.

Thats 3% for the J-2 Drive and at least 1.5% for the P-P (Usually 2% but TL 15 drives are 25% smaller).
An M-Drive of 1 takes up 1% of the ship.

Running total for Engineering = 5.5%.

A spinal weapon is 5000 tons and up, so the ship needs to be a substantial size bigger than that - but the bigger the ship, the more fuel is needed for the Jump-2 Drive.

I think 7,500 dtons is the minimum useable hull for such a ship. Plus it'll be a sparsely equipped one at that.

Looks like I got a new project! :roll: :wink:

 

[billclo]

I'm working on an entry. Hope to have one in a day or so.

 

[locarno24]

A spinal weapon is 5000 tons and up, so the ship needs to be a substantial size bigger than that - but the bigger the ship, the more fuel is needed for the Jump-2 Drive.

I think 7,500 dtons is the minimum useable hull for such a ship. Plus it'll be a sparsely equipped one at that.

Au Contrair, Blackadder!
Je Presente pour votre consideration:

Hammerzeit-class Superheavy Gunship

Little more than a mobile, jump-capable cannon, some 44% of the Hammerzeit's volume consists of a single spinal meson mount. For all the high tech elements of its design, will be neither especially manouvrable nor particularly comfortable for its 52 crew.

Its defences (10 point defence lasers and a single reinforced layer of bonded superdence armour) are tolerable but far from impressive for a multi-kiloton ship, so the Hammerzeit's primary defence being to retreat behind the protection of its single black globe generator whilst waiting for the main armament to recharge.


Hull: 2,500 dTon TL15 Class CA Wedge w/Radiation Shielding - 1075 MCr
Sections: Forward, Engineering (35 Hull, 35 Structure each)

Armour: Bonded Superdense/10 - 375 MCr, 416.7 dTons

TL15 Capital Fusion/2 - 468.75 MCr, 46.875 dTons
TL14 Capital Jump/2 - 225 MCr, 56.25 dTons inlcuding 14 dTons Capacitors
TL10 Capital Manouvre/2 - 23.4375 MCr, 23.4375 dTons

Fuel: 1 Jump-2 & 4 Weeks Endurance - 562.5 dTons
Fuel Processors: 24 Hour Refuel; 1.45 Mcr, 29 dTons

Spares: 1 Month only

Forward Command: Holographic Bridge - 15.625 MCr, 12.5 dTons
Engineering Command: Compact Bridge - 10.3125 MCr, 9.375 dTons

Computer: Core/3 - 12 MCr - Includes Jump Control Software
Software: Fire Control/5, Evade/3 - 13 MCr

Sensors: Very Advanced Electronics x3 - 12 MCr, 15 dTons

Crew:
10 Command Crew
2 Engineering Crew
11 Spinal Mount Crew
8 Troops
6 Service Crew
4 Screen Crew
10 Turret Crew
Total 31 Staterooms - 15.5 MCr, 124 dTons


Spinal Mount: TL15 Rapid Fire Meson-A - 1100 MCr, 1100 dTons*
Turrets: 10 x Single Turret (Beam Laser) - 12 MCr, 10 dTons
Screens: Black Globe Generator - 100 MCr, 50 dTons

Extras:
1152 additional Black Globe Capacitors (total 1656 points) - 96 MCr, 32 dTons
2 Briefing Rooms - 1 MCr, 8 dTons
2 Armouries - 1 MCr, 4 dTons

Total Cost - 3558 MCr
Monthly Maintenance/Spares - Cr 296,423

Prototype Construction time - 120 Weeks
Architect's Fees - 36 MCr


* Spinal Mounts miniaturize a scary amount, no? 80%, in fact, in this case!

 

[locarno24]

In fact.....working on the same logi, one with a more easily identifiable function:

Hammerzeit II-class JCOPC

Three times as massive, even less manouvreable and lacking the point defences and on-board marine squad of its predecessor, the Hammerzeit II Jump-Capable Orbital Defence has only one purpose - jump to a threatened or newly conquered system, manouvre to mainworld orbit and deploy its solar panels and distributed sensor arrays. Once one or more "jay-cops" are in place, the massive reach of their armament can detect and threaten armoured warships several light-seconds out.



Hull: 6,500 dTon TL15 Class CE Sphere w/Radiation Shielding - 2307.5 MCr
Sections: Forward, Engineering (92 Hull, 92 Structure each)

Armour: Bonded Superdense/12 - 682.5 MCr, 1300 dTons

TL15 Capital Fusion/2 - 121.875 MCr, 121.875 dTons
TL14 Capital Jump/2 - 585 MCr, 146.25 dTons inlcuding 36.5 dTons Capacitors
TL10 Capital Manouvre/1 - 48.75 MCr, 48.75 dTons

Fuel: 1 Jump-2 & 4 Weeks Endurance - 562.5 dTons

Spares: 1 Month only

Forward Command: Holographic Bridge - 15.625 MCr, 12.5 dTons
Engineering Command: Compact Bridge - 10.3125 MCr, 9.375 dTons

Computer: Core/4 - 20 MCr - Includes Jump Control Software
Software: Fire Control/5 - 10 MCr

Sensors:
Very Advanced Electronics x2 - 8 MCr, 10 dTons
Distributed Very Advanced Electronics - 12 MCr, 15 dTons

Crew:
10 Command Crew
4 Engineering Crew
32 Spinal Mount Crew
20 Service Crew
4 Screen Crew
Total 40 Staterooms - 20 MCr, 160 dTons

Spinal Mount: TL15 Rapid Fire Particle-E - 1925 MCr, 3080 dTons
Screens: Black Globe Generator - 100 MCr, 50 dTons

Extras:
2160 additional Black Globe Capacitors (total 1656 points) - 96 MCr, 24 dTons
2 Briefing Rooms - 1 MCr, 8 dTons
2 Armouries - 1 MCr, 4 dTons
Solar Panels - 1.21875 MCr, 12.1875 dTons

Total Cost - 7080 MCr

 

[Galadrion]

Hm... :? Meson bays require a minimum PP rating of 5; I know that technically meson spinal mounts are not mentioned, but I'd be inclined to rule that the same restriction applies.

Which would also mean, of course, that a ship using a PA spinal mount would need a minimum PP rating of 3.

Just my opinion, until we can get a ruling from Mongoose...

 

[billclo]

Hm... :? Meson bays require a minimum PP rating of 5; I know that technically meson spinal mounts are not mentioned, but I'd be inclined to rule that the same restriction applies.

Which would also mean, of course, that a ship using a PA spinal mount would need a minimum PP rating of 3.

Just my opinion, until we can get a ruling from Mongoose...

Hi. Where did you see this in the rules? I looked at High Guard and didn't see any such restrictions such as Meson bays.

A spinal mount requires power plant 2, no mention of type is made.

 

[barnest2]

I'll accept spinal mounts with a PP-2.

Some challenges:
Cheapest: Hammerzeit-class Superheavy Gunship (3558 Mcr)
lowest tech:
Fastest:
Toughest:
Biggest:
Smallest: Hammerzeit-class Superheavy Gunship (2,500 tons)

 

[AndrewW]

Hi. Where did you see this in the rules? I looked at High Guard and didn't see any such restrictions such as Meson bays.

High Guard page: 48 - Advanced Rules for Weapon Bays on Non-Capital Ships.

But that's specifically does not apply to capital ships.

 

[zero]

Just lost a post, basically I cant find the miniturisation rules, and I'm going to try for a TL 14 ship :wink:

 

[billclo]

I was thinking it would help us design ships if we knew what role it is to be used in. Battle-Rider? Suicidal one-shot attack ship, system defense boat?

Locarno has shown some out of the box thinking in his designs, so it'll be interesting to see what others come up with.

However, I expect these ships to be dead after one spinal hit, regardless of defenses - they are simply too small to survive 200+ damage to one section.

 

[DFW]

However, I expect these ships to be dead after one spinal hit, regardless of defenses - they are simply too small to survive 200+ damage to one section.

Like torpedoe boats of old. Can't survive a hit from the type of weapon they themselves carry...

 

[billclo]

A spinal weapon is 5000 tons and up, so the ship needs to be a substantial size bigger than that - but the bigger the ship, the more fuel is needed for the Jump-2 Drive.

I think 7,500 dtons is the minimum useable hull for such a ship. Plus it'll be a sparsely equipped one at that.

Au Contrair, Blackadder!
Je Presente pour votre consideration:

Hammerzeit-class Superheavy Gunship

Little more than a mobile, jump-capable cannon, some 44% of the Hammerzeit's volume consists of a single spinal meson mount. For all the high tech elements of its design, will be neither especially manouvrable nor particularly comfortable for its 52 crew.

Its defences (10 point defence lasers and a single reinforced layer of bonded superdence armour) are tolerable but far from impressive for a multi-kiloton ship, so the Hammerzeit's primary defence being to retreat behind the protection of its single black globe generator whilst waiting for the main armament to recharge.


Hull: 2,500 dTon TL15 Class CA Wedge w/Radiation Shielding - 1075 MCr
Sections: Forward, Engineering (35 Hull, 35 Structure each)

Armour: Bonded Superdense/10 - 375 MCr, 416.7 dTons

TL15 Capital Fusion/2 - 468.75 MCr, 46.875 dTons
TL14 Capital Jump/2 - 225 MCr, 56.25 dTons inlcuding 14 dTons Capacitors
TL10 Capital Manouvre/2 - 23.4375 MCr, 23.4375 dTons

Fuel: 1 Jump-2 & 4 Weeks Endurance - 562.5 dTons
Fuel Processors: 24 Hour Refuel; 1.45 Mcr, 29 dTons

Spares: 1 Month only

Forward Command: Holographic Bridge - 15.625 MCr, 12.5 dTons
Engineering Command: Compact Bridge - 10.3125 MCr, 9.375 dTons

Computer: Core/3 - 12 MCr - Includes Jump Control Software
Software: Fire Control/5, Evade/3 - 13 MCr

Sensors: Very Advanced Electronics x3 - 12 MCr, 15 dTons

Crew:
10 Command Crew
2 Engineering Crew
11 Spinal Mount Crew
8 Troops
6 Service Crew
4 Screen Crew
10 Turret Crew
Total 31 Staterooms - 15.5 MCr, 124 dTons


Spinal Mount: TL15 Rapid Fire Meson-A - 1100 MCr, 1100 dTons*
Turrets: 10 x Single Turret (Beam Laser) - 12 MCr, 10 dTons
Screens: Black Globe Generator - 100 MCr, 50 dTons

Extras:
1152 additional Black Globe Capacitors (total 1656 points) - 96 MCr, 32 dTons
2 Briefing Rooms - 1 MCr, 8 dTons
2 Armouries - 1 MCr, 4 dTons

Total Cost - 3558 MCr
Monthly Maintenance/Spares - Cr 296,423

Prototype Construction time - 120 Weeks
Architect's Fees - 36 MCr


* Spinal Mounts miniaturize a scary amount, no? 80%, in fact, in this case!

I think I found an error in your numbers. Specifically the armor.
10 pts of Bonded super dense ought to be 6 pts protection for every 5% of the total ship weight. 5% divided by 6=.833% per point of protection. .833x10 pts protection = 8.33% of your total weight, which is 208.25 tons.

Shouldn't the power plant (level 2, TL 15 be 2%x.75=1.5% total) = 37.5t?

I think fuel ought to be 549.5 tons (500 for Jump-2, 49.5 t for 4 weeks powerplant) - the possible error in powerplant weight may have skewed this number.

 

[billclo]

***edited AGAIN to correct an illegality with number of bays and turrets, reconfigured the bays and added M-Drive***


Here is my entry: it's a generalized combat hull. Stealthy and hard to see.

3000 tons total weight.
Hull: TL 15, distributed, with stealth, radiation shielded and self-sealing properties. 2 section, code "CA" 43 Hull + 43 structure per section.

Armor: 12 pts of bonded superdense, 300 tons
Jump-2, TL 15. 3%x.75 67.5 tons
Powerplant 6, TL 15. 5% x .75. 112.5 tons
M-drive 4, TL 15, 1.75% x.75 39.375 tons
Fuel: one Jump-2, plus 2 weeks powerplant. 674.25 tons
Bridge: 2 section, with holographic controls, hardened. 2xCore /4 rad hardened computers. 30tons

Computer software:
Manuever/0
Intellect
Jump control/2
Evade/3
Firecontrol/5

Sensors: 2 sets of Very advanced, Military Countermeaures and Enh Sig Proc, 54 tons.

Spinal Mount: 1 x Meson-A, TL15, Dmg=280, Pen II 1000 tons
50 ton bays: 5 x Meson Gun, TL15. -40% weight, 155 tons (3 bear on a target)
Turrets: 15 x Triple laser, TL 15, V-high yield, long range, 15 tons (9 bear on a target)

Screens:
Meson Screen, TL 15 @37.5 t each x 6. 225 tons
Nuclear Damper TL 15 @15t each x 6. 90 tons

Armored bulkheads for bridge and sensors: 8.4 tons
Armored bulkhead for M-Drive: 3.938 tons
Armored bulkhead for Powerplant: 11.25 tons.
Armored bulkheads for turrets: 1.5 tons
Crew: (Battle strength, ie 100%).
Command 10
Engineering 3
Gunnery 25 (10 spinal, 10 bays, 5 turrets)
Service 9
Screens 48
total 95

Staterooms (1 crew/rm) x 10, 40 tons
Staterooms (2 crew/rm) x 43, 172 tons

Cargo: .287 ton.

 

[zero]

Again, where is the miniaturisation rules for Ship components, such as the Spinal Weapon itself, based off TL?? :?

I cant find it