sanguisaevum said:
The primary tactic should be sitting at medium range, combining their drones (to pick off ships and, most importantly, tie up enemy firepower) and other weapons to wear down the enemy before closing in for the kill.
That is what I think of when I hear "drone fleet."
Then your interpretation of a "Drone Fleet" is VERY different from the group of people I game with (as well as most people I talk to who don’t game, but are familiar with the Kzinti as a racial concept), as well as being very different from the impression that "fluff" in the rule book, and ACTA website indicates.
My point is, with regards to ACTA, they are presented as a race that use Drones as a PRIMARY damaging weapon. With other weapon systems used in a supporting role.
Would you like for that "identity" to be taken away, and you be forced to play the fleet in a way that does not represent that very "fluff" that helped you chose them in the first place?
Look, don’t get me wrong, I am ALL for balance, really I am, I want the game to work just as much as you do... if the current iteration of drones was broken, then sure it needs addressing. But I DO NOT want to see the Kzinti using drones the same way as other races, they should be dealing damage with them, not using them as secondary heavy weapons.
It is LITERALLY their defining trait according to all the fluff i have read on them (and the reason I chose them). DRONES, MORE DRONES THAN YOU CAN COPE WITH!
I’m sorry you are not happy with the change to Drones but you seem to think that the Kzinti are now suddenly powerless. They are most definitely not.
The Kzinti remain the primary long range fleet, Fed cheddar DWDs aside.
A 6 ship Kzinti fleet in a 1000 point battle is going to be throwing 24 Drone each and every turn, no reloads, never running out of ammo. With the Data net rules that is two lots of 12AD. 12 AD against a DD or FF is basically a dead ship, on there own they are going to be stopping 4 or 5. 7 or 8 hit, lets say just 7 hit so that’s only 25 damage. For most DD sized ships that is the shield down and internals. For the smaller ones it is half dead, from 36” away. Even cruisers are going to be taking 6 Drones or so doing 21 damage. That is most of a cruiser sized shield gone again from 36”.
Your Kzinti fleet can basically, from three feet away across the mat take down the shields of two ships on turn one. Turn two unless those ships go IDF or hide they are going to be taking a lot of internals even if they Shield boost. A big DD with 20 shields will be crippled or dead on turn 2 even with shield boosting. That is two smaller enemy ships dead on turn 2 from 36” away.
The Kzinti are still very much a powerful long range fleet and more than capable of beating anyone except a fairly cheddar Fed fleet, they can smash a Plasma fleet or make for a very boring game of hide under the cloak or behind the Asteroids.
The Kzinti are very much doing damage with drones.
You say that you want a fleet that does more Drones than your enemy can cope with. Well 3 ship groups are that already. Without the support of several other ships all doing IDF no ship smaller than a BCH or DN can cope with 12 Drones a turn (Fed cheddar aside) but we cannot balance Drone users against the fact that the Fed are too tough against Drones, its everyone else that needs to be given a chance.
DRONES, MORE DRONES THAN YOU CAN COPE WITH!
That is the problem. Those of us who are not flying Kzinti or cheddar Fed fleets actually like to play the game as well, we sort of like to be able to move and fight without being destroyed by a Kzinti FF fleet that is racing round the map edges like greyhounds and destroying our ships one by one while we are defenceless. We don’t want to be playing a game where we cannot reload our weapons if we fire them because we are doing IDF every single turn just to have a slight chance of surviving.
The Kzinti remain a capable and powerful fleet. They can fight and win against everyone except the Fed cheese brigade. But without changing the Drone Rules and re costing DWDs (you listening Matt :lol: ) all you would ever see anywhere would be Drone heavy Fed and Kzinti fleets. They would have conquered the universe because no one could stand against them.
Try a few games and see, they are not useless, they just need some tactics and a bit of effort to win, all that has been taken away from them is the ability to auto win on turn one against most enemy fleets without the enemy even responding. It makes for far more balanced battles, is that not the whole point of the game?
If you still feel that because Drones have been changed and you can no longer smash another player from outside of his range while he has no chance to return fire that you can no longer play the game then you are, of course, free to house rule your own games in any way you like. But please don’t get upset that most of the rest of us don’t want our battle reports to start with “Turn one we moved and I lost my (insert ship type here)”.
Clanger.
Drones are an extremely versatile weapon. You can use them to deflect Phaser fire, force an enemy fleet to waste special actions with IDF, smash shields to allow other weapons in or wait till other weapons have dropped the shields and pummel the hulls for extra criticals. They give any fleet the ability to combine firepower at a huge range even in small numbers.
They can be used in a wide variety of ways and are still extremely powerful on Drone heavy fleets like the Kzinti.
As for scouts. They could either increase or decrease. Depends on how they work.
Adding a ship to a data net basically adds 4 Drones which is another 14 Damage to the target which is fairly powerful. Protecting a ship doesn’t really work since you declare in before firing so the ship simply doesn’t get fired at. Maybe some sort of limited area jamming but that’s getting complex again.
Re Reducing the range. Adds complexity, or perhaps you can simply add an extra cost for the 36" Drones paid per launcher. Not sure its needed as most fleets (Apart from my poor Gorn
) have plenty of ways to defend themselves above and beyond just phasers. Leaving them at 36" makes them a distinct and long range weapon, dropping the range impacts both Low and High Drone fleets and will cause a cascade of wailing from the Kzinti players who are already unhappy they can no longer slaughter people with impunity.
