snrdg121408
Mongoose
Hello again,
Do firmpoints cost the same cost as fixed mounts?
Do firmpoints cost the same cost as fixed mounts?
snrdg121408 said:Do firmpoints cost the same cost as fixed mounts?
Next, so is the consensus that converting two firmpoints into a barrette still eats five tons? Which makes sense, until you see that torpedo and missile barbettes on firmpoints have less capacity.
And off topic (Sorry, I've been out in the sun and it addled my brain): triple missile turret: holds 12 missiles - enough for 4 rounds? - we must assume not 36, because 12 take a ton of storage and 36 would make no sense. But then take, say a double turret: missile + sand: 12 missiles and 20 sand? or 6 missiles and 10 sand? I've been doing the latter but that's not what the rules say.
AnotherDilbert said:snrdg121408 said:Do firmpoints cost the same cost as fixed mounts?
Hardpoints and firmpoints cost nothing.
Small Craft
Ships of less than 100 tons have Firmpoints instead of Hardpoints. A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret.
Geir said:Just to roll another grenade (three actually) in here:
One thing I encountered recently doing ship designs: You can't put an armored bulkhead on a fixed mount weapon, because it has no mass. Or, alternatively, you can, but because it has no mass and the bulkhead is free... not a big point (since the former is the only logical conclusion), but: using the same logic, you CAN apply the bulkhead to a bridge, which can't be hit by a critical hit, but NOT to the zero-mass computer, which can. So, not a big deal, but a headscratcher.
Next, so is the consensus that converting two firmpoints into a barrette still eats five tons? Which makes sense, until you see that torpedo and missile barbettes on firmpoints have less capacity.
And off topic (Sorry, I've been out in the sun and it addled my brain): triple missile turret: holds 12 missiles - enough for 4 rounds? - we must assume not 36, because 12 take a ton of storage and 36 would make no sense. But then take, say a double turret: missile + sand: 12 missiles and 20 sand? or 6 missiles and 10 sand? I've been doing the latter but that's not what the rules say.
Jeraa said:Next, so is the consensus that converting two firmpoints into a barrette still eats five tons? Which makes sense, until you see that torpedo and missile barbettes on firmpoints have less capacity.
It should take 5 tons, yes. But the rules don't seem to say whether or not the firmpoint single turret or barbette actually does take up space. It should, however.
And off topic (Sorry, I've been out in the sun and it addled my brain): triple missile turret: holds 12 missiles - enough for 4 rounds? - we must assume not 36, because 12 take a ton of storage and 36 would make no sense. But then take, say a double turret: missile + sand: 12 missiles and 20 sand? or 6 missiles and 10 sand? I've been doing the latter but that's not what the rules say.
The rules say 2 things. The core rulebook says a turret with one or more missile racks holds 12 missiles. High Guard says a missile rack (not the turret) holds 12 missiles. I would go with the core rulebook here. Anything else doesn't make much sense. (Technically with High Guard being the more recent source, as well as being the book about ships, it should take precedent. But it doesn't make sense for a 1 ton turret to hold more than 1 ton of missiles.)
Likewise, the core rules say a turret with one or more sandcasters holds 20 rounds. High Guard say a sandcaster (again, not the turret) holds 12. I would go with the core rules again as well. Now, you still have a problem with a sandcaster/missile combo turret. Holding 12 missiles (1 ton) + 20 sandcaster rounds (1 ton) in a single 1 ton turret doesn't make sense. But at least as far as the core rulebook goes, that is what happens.
Personally, I prefer to say that a launcher of any type holds a single round. Anything beyond that must have dedicated magazine space accounted for (barbettes and bays being an exception). But that is a house rule.
Jeraa said:Common sense should apply. Do you really think it was the intention for a 99 ton craft to mount 9 missile launchers when a 100 ton craft can only mount 3? The rule are badly written in some places. A small craft fixed mount hold a single weapon, not 3.
snrdg121408 said:AnotherDilbert said:Hardpoints and firmpoints cost nothing.
HG 2e page 23/PDF page 24:
A Firmpoint on a small craft is a fixed mount (typically forward-facing, but there is no requirement for this), but can be upgraded to a single (not double or triple) turret.
However, the topic thread of Fixed Mounts? does say that the firmpoint entries for the heavy fighter and the troop transport should have been fixed mount.
Nerhesi said:It is refering to the fact that smallcraft firmpoints can be fixed mounts or turrets. Extra clarity is given so if you use a smallcraft firmpoint fixed mount, you can still only mount 1 weapon there, not 3 as is indicated in the base rules.
snrdg121408 said:Does a single missile rack turret mounted on a firm hold 12 or 4 missiles?
HG said:Each missile rack holds 12 missiles (missile racks on Firmpoints hold four missiles).
snrdg121408 said:How can the 1 ton of turret hold 1 ton of missiles or sand canisters and still have room the for the launcher and feed mechanism?
In CT IIRC, I cannot seem to find the information today, both missile and sandcaster turrets hold a launcher, feed mechanism, and 3 reloads.
Ursus Maior said:Jeraa said:Common sense should apply. Do you really think it was the intention for a 99 ton craft to mount 9 missile launchers when a 100 ton craft can only mount 3? The rule are badly written in some places. A small craft fixed mount hold a single weapon, not 3.
Yes, I think that's the intention, because a weapons perform lesser when mounted on a small craft, although missiles seem to be the exception. But that Fixed Mounts can carry up to three individual weapons is straight from the rules.
AnotherDilbert said:snrdg121408 said:Does a single missile rack turret mounted on a firm hold 12 or 4 missiles?
By HG each missile rack holds 12 rounds, or 4 rounds on a firmpoint, whether mounted on a Fixed Mount or Turret.
HG said:Each missile rack holds 12 missiles (missile racks on Firmpoints hold four missiles).
snrdg121408 said:How can the 1 ton of turret hold 1 ton of missiles or sand canisters and still have room the for the launcher and feed mechanism?
In CT IIRC, I cannot seem to find the information today, both missile and sandcaster turrets hold a launcher, feed mechanism, and 3 reloads.
The turret takes some space outside the hull.
Note that in CT LBB2 the turret itself takes no space, it's just the necessary fire control equipment that takes space and that can be anywhere in the hull not necessarily adjacent to the surface. See e.g. LBB2 p15.
I still have not found the source in CT that mentioned three missiles/sand canisters per launcher.
Reloading: Each launcher (sand or missile) has an inherent capacity for three missiles or canisters. This means that a triple turret with three missile launchers has a total of 9 missiles in ready position.
MISSILE STORAGE
Each standard missile rack can hold one missile ready to fire and two additional
missiles ready for future game turns. The role of the gunner in the turret is to aim
and fire the weaponry in the turret; once the missile racks and ready missiles are
exhausted, the gunner must reload them with new missiles. A gunner can load new
missiles into the racks and still operate the weaponry in a game turn.
The standard turret has room to store an additional 12 missiles in it. Once these
missiles have been used, the turret must be restocked with missiles carried elsewhere
in the ship (usually in the cargo hold).
Restocking a turret with missiles is accomplished during the game turn interphase.
If the gunner participates in restocking, he may not operate weaponry in the turret
in the next game turn. It is possible for non-gunner crewmembers who are not otherwise
engaged to perform restocking instead. One person can restock a turret in one
game turn.
Sigtrygg said:And then the Missiles special supplement published in JTAS added:
MISSILE STORAGE
Each standard missile rack can hold one missile ready to fire and two additional
missiles ready for future game turns. The role of the gunner in the turret is to aim
and fire the weaponry in the turret; once the missile racks and ready missiles are
exhausted, the gunner must reload them with new missiles. A gunner can load new
missiles into the racks and still operate the weaponry in a game turn.
The standard turret has room to store an additional 12 missiles in it. Once these
missiles have been used, the turret must be restocked with missiles carried elsewhere
in the ship (usually in the cargo hold).
Restocking a turret with missiles is accomplished during the game turn interphase.
If the gunner participates in restocking, he may not operate weaponry in the turret
in the next game turn. It is possible for non-gunner crewmembers who are not otherwise
engaged to perform restocking instead. One person can restock a turret in one
game turn.
Geir said:Sigtrygg said:And then the Missiles special supplement published in JTAS added:
MISSILE STORAGE
Each standard missile rack can hold one missile ready to fire and two additional
missiles ready for future game turns. The role of the gunner in the turret is to aim
and fire the weaponry in the turret; once the missile racks and ready missiles are
exhausted, the gunner must reload them with new missiles. A gunner can load new
missiles into the racks and still operate the weaponry in a game turn.
The standard turret has room to store an additional 12 missiles in it. Once these
missiles have been used, the turret must be restocked with missiles carried elsewhere
in the ship (usually in the cargo hold).
Restocking a turret with missiles is accomplished during the game turn interphase.
If the gunner participates in restocking, he may not operate weaponry in the turret
in the next game turn. It is possible for non-gunner crewmembers who are not otherwise
engaged to perform restocking instead. One person can restock a turret in one
game turn.
Well that isn't that helpful. Or too helpful. If I'm reading this correctly, there seems to be no real game distinction between the one in the ready position, the two ready and the other 12 in the "standard turret". That makes fifteen in a turret before turn-wasting reloads are necessary in a single turret. Or if you have a triple missile rack turret, 3 per rack plus twelve more = 9 +12 = 21.