Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Good information. Thanks.
Imperial Navy Ship and Shipyard Sizes
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Annual maintenance will soak up some capacity.
And service life extension.
And service life extension.
J. L. Brown
Cosmic Mongoose
You make some good points regarding politics and procurement, but there are two factors working in favor of the Duke of Tobia:
1} There are not many competing shipyards nearby; the yards in the Spinward Marches are very much preoccupied with keeping the Marches secure.
2} The Aslan are a threat which is taken seriously at the highest levels.
So, yes the Duke of Tobia is a nobody with few votes in the Moot; and yes, Tobia is not a yard with tradition (and graft) on its' side. Still, Tobia is valuable, and worth defending -- even if that is not reflected in a high amount of official naval spending. Maybe Strephon could issue a writ, granting the right for the Duke of Tobia to build (at his own expense) some formidable Huscarls to be used for defense of the frontier. Or the Guke could prefer seeking forgiveness over seeking permission, and channel much of his local funds (to the tune of four Plankwells) into his personal house-guard units.
We have a problem in that the Aslan are putting pressure on the Trojan Reach, and there must be an Imperial force there to counterbalance that, or we don't end up with the universe that we seem to see. Or maybe I am not seeing the whole picture.
1} There are not many competing shipyards nearby; the yards in the Spinward Marches are very much preoccupied with keeping the Marches secure.
2} The Aslan are a threat which is taken seriously at the highest levels.
So, yes the Duke of Tobia is a nobody with few votes in the Moot; and yes, Tobia is not a yard with tradition (and graft) on its' side. Still, Tobia is valuable, and worth defending -- even if that is not reflected in a high amount of official naval spending. Maybe Strephon could issue a writ, granting the right for the Duke of Tobia to build (at his own expense) some formidable Huscarls to be used for defense of the frontier. Or the Guke could prefer seeking forgiveness over seeking permission, and channel much of his local funds (to the tune of four Plankwells) into his personal house-guard units.
We have a problem in that the Aslan are putting pressure on the Trojan Reach, and there must be an Imperial force there to counterbalance that, or we don't end up with the universe that we seem to see. Or maybe I am not seeing the whole picture.
Yes, there is. That's why a fragment of a sector has a Sector Fleet and not a mere sector command the way the nearly equal sized Reft Sector does. But having a force in being and a major repair/maintenance yard is very different from being a good place to build new ships. It is way out on the fringe and relatively threatened as a result. If there's a massive Aslan onslaught and Tobia gets overrun, now those under construction ships are captured or destroyed in a raid even if the planet doesn't fall.
The current naval strategy is defense in depth. The Reaches Sector Fleet is there to blunt the initial attack and try to keep the fighting in the neutral spaces until reinforcements from Deneb and Corridor can arrive.
And they could just build the ships at Trin, which is much safer and much more influential. And it is only 6 jumps to get those ships to Tobia, since naval standard is J4. That's a shakedown cruise. So why take the risk? There has to be someone (or, more likely, multiple someones)with enough influence to have some personal benefit from pushing to take that risk. I don't see the Duke of Tobia being a person with that kind of influence.
You can certainly create that influence if you want it present. LSP is trying to move on GeDeCo's space and they want a big commission for their shipyard at Tobia. Or the Grand Admiral for Deneb is pissed at the infighting between Norris & Delphine, so he punishes them by recommending an obscure shipyard for the new destroyer contract.
Beyond that, I find that a decisive issue is that a military shipyard needs not just shipbuilding capacity, but the logistics and infrastructure for state of the art military construction, a pool of those Engineering Duty Officers, and the necessary security to handle the classified projects. So Tobia needs to be getting constant contracts so they retain those skilled workers and resources. Unless your purpose is that this is the first big Navy contract here and everyone is gearing up for this super critical new job.
But at the end of the day, everything about Tobia is made up. If you want to make Tobia the Newport News of the Imperium, it isn't going to break anything. The point is to have fun and everyone's going to have different things that add or subtract fun from their games. And not everything in the real world is consistent or sensible, so it is silly to expect that it would be better in the future.
The current naval strategy is defense in depth. The Reaches Sector Fleet is there to blunt the initial attack and try to keep the fighting in the neutral spaces until reinforcements from Deneb and Corridor can arrive.
And they could just build the ships at Trin, which is much safer and much more influential. And it is only 6 jumps to get those ships to Tobia, since naval standard is J4. That's a shakedown cruise. So why take the risk? There has to be someone (or, more likely, multiple someones)with enough influence to have some personal benefit from pushing to take that risk. I don't see the Duke of Tobia being a person with that kind of influence.
You can certainly create that influence if you want it present. LSP is trying to move on GeDeCo's space and they want a big commission for their shipyard at Tobia. Or the Grand Admiral for Deneb is pissed at the infighting between Norris & Delphine, so he punishes them by recommending an obscure shipyard for the new destroyer contract.
Beyond that, I find that a decisive issue is that a military shipyard needs not just shipbuilding capacity, but the logistics and infrastructure for state of the art military construction, a pool of those Engineering Duty Officers, and the necessary security to handle the classified projects. So Tobia needs to be getting constant contracts so they retain those skilled workers and resources. Unless your purpose is that this is the first big Navy contract here and everyone is gearing up for this super critical new job.
But at the end of the day, everything about Tobia is made up. If you want to make Tobia the Newport News of the Imperium, it isn't going to break anything. The point is to have fun and everyone's going to have different things that add or subtract fun from their games. And not everything in the real world is consistent or sensible, so it is silly to expect that it would be better in the future.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Anstett
Cosmic Mongoose
I initially agree with this....
Then the SoM changes this to monthly maintenance replacing/superseding annual.
I can easily see Naval and Scout ships having a different routine for maintenance (and I do that) but for cannon purposes?
J. L. Brown
Cosmic Mongoose
I do not have the Fifth Frontier War books yet; so I cannot consult them. The idea that the Imperium would be reinforcing the Trojan Reach from Corridor sounds incorrect; even at fleet speeds, it is a minimum of 12 weeks for messages to get from Bleak to Ka Eto (the shortest route between the sectors). Using the FFW as an example, how many sectors changed hands between the Empire & the Consulate? How many sub-sectors? How many Imperial Navy bases? If those kinds of risks were worth decades of preparation, then casually losing 17 naval bases in the Reach just doesn't add up.
I can buy the 'Reinforcements from Deneb or the Marches', but Corridor is just too far. And, yes, I realize that the Trojan Reach is a backwater that doesn't even HAVE an Imperial Navy Depot -- but neither do the Marches. And the Moot can play silly political games with procurement as much as they like; the idea of using heavy naval assets to patrol & protect Wyoming only goes so far before practical reality (that the military needs to be ready where the threat happens to be) demands consideration.
I can buy the 'Reinforcements from Deneb or the Marches', but Corridor is just too far. And, yes, I realize that the Trojan Reach is a backwater that doesn't even HAVE an Imperial Navy Depot -- but neither do the Marches. And the Moot can play silly political games with procurement as much as they like; the idea of using heavy naval assets to patrol & protect Wyoming only goes so far before practical reality (that the military needs to be ready where the threat happens to be) demands consideration.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Deneb does have a Depot though, so most of the Fleets for the Marches and the Reach would likely have been built there, but with this conflicting information, I have no idea.
Shipbuilding is a combination of yards and industrial capacity to build the systems and weapons that are put into the hulls. It's never been really clear how much the Depots are responsible for, construction wise, and how much is built by distributing workloads throughout the Imperium. From the descriptions, depots do R&D, maintain the reserve fleets, upgrades and refits, and obviously some construction. It may be that they limit themselves to the largest capital ships and leave cruisers and such to other yards.
We know from the various versions of the games that any Class A starport has a large yard attached to it - or at least as a rule of thumb it does. Some worlds have Class A ports and they make no logical sense for their positioning. There is the singular Imperial starport in a system, by which the UPP has it's code, but worlds are not forbidden to have other ports that are equal to, or greater than, the Imperial port. It would make zero sense for a planet with a population in the billions to have a single port. Planets with easy access to space are going to have scads of smaller ports spread around the planet and system to service a high-tech space capable civilization. Common sense and history tells us this is how it WILL work because that's how things actually work in reality. Games that try to disabuse commons sense are just being silly to themselves.
One also has to consider the OTHER fleets and warships out there. You have the Sector fleets, sub-sector, and down to planetary navies. Those ships aren't going to be built at some far-away location and then moved to their home ports. Planets and sub-sectors that have the internal industrial capacity are going to want to see their tax credits expended at home to reap the benefits. Only when a planet is not able to do it themselves will they buy imported ships. Buy local is a by-word for any politician who wants to keep their job or their people happy. The Imperium doesn't' interfere with such things since it's allowed under the law (some would argue required, though the amount of defensive capabilities a system has to have isn't defined either).
Something to keep in mind is that Traveller ships have long lifetimes - a hundred years is not unusual. Average TL is 12, so obtaining parts isn't the issue. Refits will keep a ship servicable for decades. Just how long a useful lifetime a starship might have is an interesting question. So your shipyard capacity is going to be sized to maintain overall ship count without going too far into either shortages or excess capacity - that's bad for the economy and the bottom line. And the laws of business (and the heavy hand of the Imperial government) will work to keep it at some natural level - whatever that level may be.
We know from the various versions of the games that any Class A starport has a large yard attached to it - or at least as a rule of thumb it does. Some worlds have Class A ports and they make no logical sense for their positioning. There is the singular Imperial starport in a system, by which the UPP has it's code, but worlds are not forbidden to have other ports that are equal to, or greater than, the Imperial port. It would make zero sense for a planet with a population in the billions to have a single port. Planets with easy access to space are going to have scads of smaller ports spread around the planet and system to service a high-tech space capable civilization. Common sense and history tells us this is how it WILL work because that's how things actually work in reality. Games that try to disabuse commons sense are just being silly to themselves.
One also has to consider the OTHER fleets and warships out there. You have the Sector fleets, sub-sector, and down to planetary navies. Those ships aren't going to be built at some far-away location and then moved to their home ports. Planets and sub-sectors that have the internal industrial capacity are going to want to see their tax credits expended at home to reap the benefits. Only when a planet is not able to do it themselves will they buy imported ships. Buy local is a by-word for any politician who wants to keep their job or their people happy. The Imperium doesn't' interfere with such things since it's allowed under the law (some would argue required, though the amount of defensive capabilities a system has to have isn't defined either).
Something to keep in mind is that Traveller ships have long lifetimes - a hundred years is not unusual. Average TL is 12, so obtaining parts isn't the issue. Refits will keep a ship servicable for decades. Just how long a useful lifetime a starship might have is an interesting question. So your shipyard capacity is going to be sized to maintain overall ship count without going too far into either shortages or excess capacity - that's bad for the economy and the bottom line. And the laws of business (and the heavy hand of the Imperial government) will work to keep it at some natural level - whatever that level may be.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
How many ships are built at Pearl Harbor? 90% of their work is on submarines, but most of their Fleet is surface ships. (Granted, My knowledge is 20+ years out of date on this.) Are you saying that Pearl Harbor should have no ships because they can't be built locally? Also, if ships are built by the Navy in Traveller and not by private corps, then buying local would be irrelevant, since no local labor would be used in their construction. Also, Imperial Politicians (nobles) are not elected, so their popularity is largely unimportant. Most people on a planet probably couldn't even pick their local nobles out of a line-up, since Imperial Nobles do not run the planets that they are assigned to.
What is the point of having entire star systems dedicated to Military Starship construction and maintenance if they don't build ships there and you no longer need shipyards for maintenance? Those Depots do not make money. They require trillions of credits a year to keep in operation. The only thing worth that kind of expenditure, is building Fleets of warships. Since SOM, you no longer need a shipyard to do maintenance. So, without needing Depots for maintenance and if the ships are built elsewhere, what justifies their expense?
Hawaii did not have the necessary infrastructure to be a ship-BUILDING hub. All the industrial goods and supplies had to be shipped in. So it made a better fleet service base to maintain and repair the pacific fleet.
You are conflating world governments with Imperial nobility. Politicians have to keep their jobs if they are elected, and non-elected rulers (including nobility) also have to keep the people happy. Or, as history has shown us, they can be overthrown and replaced. Nobles don't actually run the planets or manage their economies unless the planetary government is a monarchy. Otherwise they represent them in the Moot. Imperial policy is mostly hands off for planets so long as they follow the very loose Imperial laws and rules.
A depot system has many functions, and I listed some of them in the post. You do realize that nearly every military is a money sink? They are NOT profit centers, let alone even break-even organizations. They exist because when you need them they have to already be in place. Unless, of course, you are living during Machiavelli's time, and then you can live by the maxim “Gold will not always get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can get you gold.”
I do not have the new SOM, but there is a difference between 'maintenance' and refits. I would agree that, for the most part, you don't need a depot for regular maintenance (the ship equivalent of changing your oil in your car). But you DO need more equipment when you are doing refits and replacing whole systems, cutting into the hull to replace fusion generators or drives, etc. And if SOM says otherwise, well, that's a book making a bad judgement call.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I'll add to the flurry of conversation by adding a section taken from The Imperial Navy on procurement. This really makes it sounds like most Navy shipbuilding takes place away from a depot. Otherwise, the following makes little sense. I'll toss this into the other threads as well.
---
"There are other pressures at play, as well. Megacorporations and major shipyards have a lot of influence and can persuade the procurement board to buy their design despite that of a competitor being, on balance, better. Employment is yet another issue; the navy has at times ended up with rather poor vessels because building them kept huge numbers of people in work. It is the naval crews that end up paying the price for this economic decision but in a system as complex as the Imperium, trade-offs are inevitable.
The procurement process can be very complex, with the cost of a ship class offset in various ways. For example, a shipyard might offer to build a particular class at a discount, providing the Imperium funds the construction of a prototype it hopes will later be adopted for service. Conversely, the navy might agree to award a build contract to a particular megacorporation in return for the construction of infrastructure on a key world. These offset deals can be so complex that nobody really knows the true cost of the project, and in turn can lead to rather strange decisions.
Once a contract is awarded, ships go into production, usually at several yards in different regions. Lessons learned with the lead ships of the class are then incorporated into later examples, which in some cases can lead to an extensive mid-build redesign. One trick commonly used by the procurement board is to initially build a ship with a reduced specification, then ask for money for upgrades in future budgets. When this works, it can produce very capable vessels that would not have been affordable in a single budget allocation, but if the extra funding is not awarded the ship will have to manage without some of its intended systems. This is one reason why some classes never receive their full electronics fit, point defences or other necessary components."
---
"There are other pressures at play, as well. Megacorporations and major shipyards have a lot of influence and can persuade the procurement board to buy their design despite that of a competitor being, on balance, better. Employment is yet another issue; the navy has at times ended up with rather poor vessels because building them kept huge numbers of people in work. It is the naval crews that end up paying the price for this economic decision but in a system as complex as the Imperium, trade-offs are inevitable.
The procurement process can be very complex, with the cost of a ship class offset in various ways. For example, a shipyard might offer to build a particular class at a discount, providing the Imperium funds the construction of a prototype it hopes will later be adopted for service. Conversely, the navy might agree to award a build contract to a particular megacorporation in return for the construction of infrastructure on a key world. These offset deals can be so complex that nobody really knows the true cost of the project, and in turn can lead to rather strange decisions.
Once a contract is awarded, ships go into production, usually at several yards in different regions. Lessons learned with the lead ships of the class are then incorporated into later examples, which in some cases can lead to an extensive mid-build redesign. One trick commonly used by the procurement board is to initially build a ship with a reduced specification, then ask for money for upgrades in future budgets. When this works, it can produce very capable vessels that would not have been affordable in a single budget allocation, but if the extra funding is not awarded the ship will have to manage without some of its intended systems. This is one reason why some classes never receive their full electronics fit, point defences or other necessary components."
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Politicians, and/or administrators, have vested interests.
Also, patronage and sponsorships.
Ideally, those interests align with the polity, or electorate.
Also, patronage and sponsorships.
Ideally, those interests align with the polity, or electorate.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
There was a clarification on who builds Navy ships and where in another thread.
Who Builds Imperial Navy Ships and Where Do They Do It?
So, in a couple of threads, there has been some spirited discussion on who builds the ships for the Imperial Navy, where they are built, and who oversees the commercial shipyards in regular systems (SPA or the commercial entities that built them). The core of the debate seems to be centered...
forum.mongoosepublishing.com
Corridor used to be the biggest place to stick ships, so they could go either way. Anyway, it's only a few more jumps from Depot/Corridor than it is from Depot/Deneb. It is half a year or more from either place.
Not sure what your point is about patrolling Wyoming. Where's the Wyoming? The Marches aren't Wyoming. Deneb isn't Wyoming. Corridor isn't Wyoming. They are all under threat. The Imperial Navy does not put the bulk of its forces on the frontier. The communications lag inherent in jump drive operations has taught them that having your major forces forward is a recipe for having them defeated by an attacker before they can group up into a decisive force.
The Imperial solution is Fortress Worlds. Worlds with very large colonial navies of Monitors, SDBs, and fortresses that can hopefully hold out for those months of communication lag. They don't station the Imperial Fleet at Rhylanor in much strength, because the attacker is going to have a huge advantage in fleet concentration in the first months of a war. But a constant major argument is that local nobles want those big fleets up front in their home systems, making them feel safe and spending Navy money. But that kind of crust defense loses in the Navy's opinion.
No one is suggesting that no warships are built in the Reaches. But they are probably not building Imperial Navy vessels there, because they don't want those shipyards and partially built ships lost in the initial surge of aggression. Shipyards like Glisten, Trin, and Mora are significantly more centralized, still forward by Charted Space standards, and less likely to fall in the first couple months of a war.
That author, MJD, used to work in/with the US defense industry, so he has a pretty clear idea of how whacked it really is.
He rarely does wargamer optimized things with ships, fleets, etc as a result.J. L. Brown
Cosmic Mongoose
The US navy does not send ships to patrol (nor build bases) in Wyoming, because there are no naval threats to Wyoming
The Imperium has 19 worlds named Depot, each home to a an Imperial Navy depot.
Whatever the function of these 'depots' happen to be, warfighting is not among them. The majority of these are not where the threat is. They cannot project any force. To me it makes sense for the depots to be training centers & places for mothballed ships. Navy bases, on the other hand make perfect sense for 'center of resistance to the enemy' -- some of them are right on the border, either to act as trip-wires or as obstacles to slow the enemy advance; others are spread throughout ('in depth') Imperial territory, ensuring that there is always going to be an IN presence to dispatch towards fighting as a quick reaction, and a line of communication.
The Imperium has 19 worlds named Depot, each home to a an Imperial Navy depot.
Depot Zarushagar 1920 A68886B-C
Depot Massilia 0301 A78A76A-E
Depot Vland 2728 A59466A-C
Depot Diaspora 2018 A00076A-F
Depot Antares 2021 A54456A-D
Depot Deneb 1613 A10066A-F
Depot Corridor 1511 A68646A-D
Depot Gushemege 3016 A54066B-C
Depot Ilelish 1022 A56256A-D
Depot Dagudashaag 3121 A31046A-F
Depot Daibei 0326 A9B956A-F
Depot Lishun 1219 A78846A-D
Depot Core 1518 A86A56A-F
Depot Solomani Rim 1911 A00066B-F
Depot Fornast 1811 A87846A-D
Depot 1 Delphi 0832 A58346A-D
Depot 2 Delphi 1205 A78746A-D
Depot Old Expanses 1213 A00056A-F
Depot Ley 1420 A55356A-D
Whatever the function of these 'depots' happen to be, warfighting is not among them. The majority of these are not where the threat is. They cannot project any force. To me it makes sense for the depots to be training centers & places for mothballed ships. Navy bases, on the other hand make perfect sense for 'center of resistance to the enemy' -- some of them are right on the border, either to act as trip-wires or as obstacles to slow the enemy advance; others are spread throughout ('in depth') Imperial territory, ensuring that there is always going to be an IN presence to dispatch towards fighting as a quick reaction, and a line of communication.
I don't know where this line of discussion is coming from. No one said that the depots were for warfighting? Nor has anyone said that the Imperial Navy is evenly distributed.
But the Imperial Navy doctrine is to keep the core of the Sector Fleet far from the front. Colonial and Subsector Fleets are supposed to do any day to day work and serve as the initial response to a war.
Here's quotes from Fifth Frontier War:
"There is no Grand Admiral assigned to the Domain of Deneb but there are two in the Domain of Vland. One commands the fleets of the Domain whilst the other is assigned to the strategic reserve force held in Corridor. In the event of major hostilities this officer may be ordered to lead a reinforcement operation into the Spinward Marches,"
"The Spinward Marches sector admiral is also responsible for the relatively minor forces in the Trojan Reach. Likewise, the sector admiral for Deneb sends forces to Reft if needed. In time of war, the Spinward Marches sector admiral has primary responsibility for the defence of the sector and conduct of any operations beyond it. The sector admirals in Deneb and Corridor are responsible for dealing with raids into their territory but can be expected to send a large segment of their force as reinforcements, in turn receiving additional forces from deeper within the Imperium."
"The Trojan Reach Fleet is small, little more than a placeholder formation. Its major warships are mostly older vessels, though there is a handful of more modern cruisers and destroyers available for operations beyond the border. In the event of a serious threat, reinforcements could be dispatched from Trin."
I'm not just making stuff up here. This has been how it works in Charted Space since the dawn of time. The time lag of jump speed communications is killer for forward deployments. If you have your feet forward deployed all up and down the line (the "crust" strategy many civilians prefer), any of those elements can be Pearl Harbor'ed by a superior force because your opponent has an initial advantage of concentration of force.
Even if you go back to the 1980s Fifth Frontier War boardgame, it is the same. The Imperial territory on the map is the Jewell, Lanth, Regina, and Vilis subsectors. The Imperial player starts with the colonial navies, plus 2 Battleship squadrons and 6 Cruiser Squadrons as their "heavy" assets. It isn't until Turn 10 when you start getting reinforcements from elsewhere, eventually totalling another 32 battleship and 26 cruiser squadrons.
The numbers have been increased in the modern iteration. But the bulk of the Spinward Marches Sector fleet is still back at Macene and deeper.
But the Imperial Navy doctrine is to keep the core of the Sector Fleet far from the front. Colonial and Subsector Fleets are supposed to do any day to day work and serve as the initial response to a war.
Here's quotes from Fifth Frontier War:
"There is no Grand Admiral assigned to the Domain of Deneb but there are two in the Domain of Vland. One commands the fleets of the Domain whilst the other is assigned to the strategic reserve force held in Corridor. In the event of major hostilities this officer may be ordered to lead a reinforcement operation into the Spinward Marches,"
"The Spinward Marches sector admiral is also responsible for the relatively minor forces in the Trojan Reach. Likewise, the sector admiral for Deneb sends forces to Reft if needed. In time of war, the Spinward Marches sector admiral has primary responsibility for the defence of the sector and conduct of any operations beyond it. The sector admirals in Deneb and Corridor are responsible for dealing with raids into their territory but can be expected to send a large segment of their force as reinforcements, in turn receiving additional forces from deeper within the Imperium."
"The Trojan Reach Fleet is small, little more than a placeholder formation. Its major warships are mostly older vessels, though there is a handful of more modern cruisers and destroyers available for operations beyond the border. In the event of a serious threat, reinforcements could be dispatched from Trin."
I'm not just making stuff up here. This has been how it works in Charted Space since the dawn of time. The time lag of jump speed communications is killer for forward deployments. If you have your feet forward deployed all up and down the line (the "crust" strategy many civilians prefer), any of those elements can be Pearl Harbor'ed by a superior force because your opponent has an initial advantage of concentration of force.
Even if you go back to the 1980s Fifth Frontier War boardgame, it is the same. The Imperial territory on the map is the Jewell, Lanth, Regina, and Vilis subsectors. The Imperial player starts with the colonial navies, plus 2 Battleship squadrons and 6 Cruiser Squadrons as their "heavy" assets. It isn't until Turn 10 when you start getting reinforcements from elsewhere, eventually totalling another 32 battleship and 26 cruiser squadrons.
The numbers have been increased in the modern iteration. But the bulk of the Spinward Marches Sector fleet is still back at Macene and deeper.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Systems are more like archipelagoes.
There's no point on a planet, that a starwarship in orbit couldn't have a go at bombarding.
There's no point on a planet, that a starwarship in orbit couldn't have a go at bombarding.
J. L. Brown
Cosmic Mongoose
I have never advocated for a 'crust strategy' where the vast bulk of the navy's strength is deployed at the outermost systems; nor have I accused you of making things up. I have criticized the idea that defense of the Trojan Reach depends upon a 44 parsec lag. The material quoted above makes it clear that the Spinward Marches is responsible for the defense of the Trojan Reach, and manages what there is of the TR sector fleet.
I have also criticized the idea that 'defense in depth' requires a 44 parsec (back to Corridor) gap; with Imperial fleet speed being J-4, I would expect the forward reserves to be distributed more than (to prevent an enemy single-jump surprise with overwhelming force) 6 parsecs, and 8 or less parsecs (for quick response and faster communication) from where the fighting is expected. I would also expect that any border (at least 6 parsecs deep) with potential hostiles to be liberally patrolled and watched; so that an enemy fleet could not simply jump through uncontested and unobserved -- something that can easily be done with very small ships, so long as they are fast & have decent sensors. But such pickets require a large number of hulls, moreso since it is desirable that such pickets not be alone.
I have also criticized the idea that 'defense in depth' requires a 44 parsec (back to Corridor) gap; with Imperial fleet speed being J-4, I would expect the forward reserves to be distributed more than (to prevent an enemy single-jump surprise with overwhelming force) 6 parsecs, and 8 or less parsecs (for quick response and faster communication) from where the fighting is expected. I would also expect that any border (at least 6 parsecs deep) with potential hostiles to be liberally patrolled and watched; so that an enemy fleet could not simply jump through uncontested and unobserved -- something that can easily be done with very small ships, so long as they are fast & have decent sensors. But such pickets require a large number of hulls, moreso since it is desirable that such pickets not be alone.
