Imperial Navy Ship and Shipyard Sizes

[Terry Mixon]

Ling rents the space from the SPA on a long-term lease would be My guess, based on the writings.

I hear what you're saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me, particularly in a system like Glisten. I don't believe the SPA would have that level of control and oversight. Blisten Starport is more than enough to keep them busy. A corporation could run a yard on the other side of the star (or in the Pulivis belt like Ling-Standard) and run their own show. Perhaps--almost certainly--that changes when it's in the same structure, but no, I can't buy into this. It's too broad.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I hear what you're saying, but it just doesn't make sense to me, particularly in a system like Glisten. I don't believe the SPA would have that level of control and oversight. Blisten Starport is more than enough to keep them busy. A corporation could run a yard on the other side of the star (or in the Pulivis belt like Ling-Standard) and run their own show. Perhaps--almost certainly--that changes when it's in the same structure, but no, I can't buy into this. It's too broad.

The direct quote says, "among the installations" when talking about the Starport. That clearly states that it is part of the Starport.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The direct quote says, "among the installations" when talking about the Starport. That clearly states that it is part of the Starport.

I see that but disagree about the premise. That's a wiki page, not a rulebook. Yes, it is an installation, but I will stand by my opinion that it is not part of the starport. Again, why would the SPA be in charge of shipyard owned by commercial entities? They aren't leasing space. It's an even in a different asteroid belt than the starport.

I don't want to argue as you have a firm opinion and so do I. Perhaps some of the experts can pop in and opine We'll each end up doing what feels right anyway.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I see that but disagree about the premise. That's a wiki page, not a rulebook. Yes, it is an installation, but I will stand by my opinion that it is not part of the starport. Again, why would the SPA be in charge of shipyard owned by commercial entities? They aren't leasing space. It's an even in a different asteroid belt than the starport.

I don't want to argue as you have a firm opinion and so do I. Perhaps some of the experts can pop in and opine We'll each end up doing what feels right anyway.

Not an opinion, so it is open to change if I find better information in printed material. I am currently looking for My copy of Behind the Claw to see if it has better information.

 

[Vormaerin]

"Starport" by definition means "Imperial run spaceport". All spaceports run by anyone else are called "spaceports". These include planetary government managed ports on the mainworld and secondary worlds, private ports by civilian organizations (like the LSP port), and freeports.

Private ports and freeports are not provided for in the rules. They are assigned as desired by the GM. Secondary world ports do have a generation system. Class F (the highest) spaceports can sometimes have shipyards.

The core problem with Traveller's classification is that it makes the presence of shipyards a defining element of the higher rated ports. The busiest port in the US (LA/Long Beach) is a class C port by this classification, because it hasn't had an operational shipyard in like 30 years. The Port of San Diego, which is 1/60th of the container volume of the combined LA/LB ports, does the shipbuilding.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Found this in GURPS Behind the Claw.

"The Glisten system has two huge asteroid belts, one ofwhich is designated the main world. In fact there are many settlements, each with its own ports. Most of the settlements specialize in a particular social or economic/industrial role. Glisten City is the main governmental and business district. The Pluvis group is the main shipbuilding center for the system, containing the vast Ling Standard Products and Bilstein shipyards and other, smaller yards of lesser importance."

Not sure how to interpret that though. It seems to say that each settlement has it's own port, but it doesn't clearly state if they are sub-ports of the Starport or Spaceports. Although it does say that the port for the Pluvis Group is the one with the shipyards. So, now I am kind of at a loss for what the writers intended. This does say that all of the shipyards are located in one port, which is rewritten by later books.

In the end, your universe, so it works how you want it to.

 

[MasterGwydion]

"Starport" by definition means "Imperial run spaceport". All spaceports run by anyone else are called "spaceports". These include planetary government managed ports on the mainworld and secondary worlds, private ports by civilian organizations (like the LSP port), and freeports.

Private ports and freeports are not provided for in the rules. They are assigned as desired by the GM. Secondary world ports do have a generation system. Class F (the highest) spaceports can sometimes have shipyards.

The core problem with Traveller's classification is that it makes the presence of shipyards a defining element of the higher rated ports. The busiest port in the US (LA/Long Beach) is a class C port by this classification, because it hasn't had an operational shipyard in like 30 years. The Port of San Diego, which is 1/60th of the container volume of the combined LA/LB ports, does the shipbuilding.

Yeah, the way starports are classified in Traveller is kind of non-functional for worldbuilding.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Found this in GURPS Behind the Claw.

"The Glisten system has two huge asteroid belts, one ofwhich is designated the main world. In fact there are many settlements, each with its own ports. Most of the settlements specialize in a particular social or economic/industrial role. Glisten City is the main governmental and business district. The Pluvis group is the main shipbuilding center for the system, containing the vast Ling Standard Products and Bilstein shipyards and other, smaller yards of lesser importance."

Not sure how to interpret that though. It seems to say that each settlement has it's own port, but it doesn't clearly state if they are sub-ports of the Starport or Spaceports. Although it does say that the port for the Pluvis Group is the one with the shipyards. So, now I am kind of at a loss for what the writers intended. This does say that all of the shipyards are located in one port, which is rewritten by later books.

In the end, your universe, so it works how you want it to.

My players and I are based out of Glisten, so I've got an idea of how it works there in my universe. Wait until my mad scientist creates his ship-sized fabricator/deconstructor and starts making ships in hours. All hell is going to break loose, and the economy might blow up.

 

[MasterGwydion]

My players and I are based out of Glisten, so I've got an idea of how it works there in my universe. Wait until my mad scientist creates his ship-sized fabricator/deconstructor and starts making ships in hours. All hell is going to break loose, and the economy might blow up.

I take it in your universe, Fabricators can make ship armor? Normally in Charted Space that would take TL-13 for Crystaliron, but the CSC says that anything beyond that is impossible for Fabricators. page 7 under the TL breakdowns for what the Fabricators can build.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I take it in your universe, Fabricators can make ship armor? Normally in Charted Space that would take TL-17 or TL-19 Fabricators depending on which armor you were making. TL-17 for most, but TL-19 for the Molecular Bonded. Not sure which it would be for Bonded Superdense.

I made the decision that in my universe it can because the fabricator design is very advanced, a TL-19 (which the Robot Handbook on page 105 says is the step up to fabrication (superior)) design created by an NPCs genius. In my workaround, while an Advanced fabrication unit can't do superdense materials, a Superior one can, and in 1D minutes to boot! It's an early prototype.

He is a robotics and cybernetics expert from Vinceses and had created a TL-17 version of the fabricator before the game started that rolled the decronstructor tech into it. Now he's created a prototech TL-19 version that is twice as large and ten times as expensive, but it works. Now he intends to leverage that in ways as lot of people will hate, almost blind to the potential repercussions.

I'm using the NPC as a way to shake the very foundations of the Imperium, and my players are having to handle the overt fallout. And I'm backdooring my way into the Ancients storyline, so it's more cinematic and over the top than normal, too. Wait until they find out he intends to deconstruct people, store their data and memories (like a primitive Archive or the life insurance thing from T5), and fabricate them new bodies with intact memories as a hedge against death. Someone is going to lose it, I'm sure.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I made the decision that in my universe it can because of its advanced TL. The fabricator design is very advanced, a TL-19 leap ahead by an NPCs genius.

My workaround in this is that his isn't an Advanced fabrication unit. It's a Superior one. Advanced can't do superdense materials, but superior, in my universe at least, can.

I'm using him as a way to shake the very foundations of the Imperium and my players are having to handle the overt fallout.

Story reasons. Your goal is to break your universe. Got it. lolz for your players.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Story reasons. Your goal is to break your universe. Got it. lolz for your players.

I rephrased the above to make it clearer, but exactly. I'm breaking it and them. They thought this was a bounty hunter campaign. lol!

 

[MasterGwydion]

I rephrased the above to make it clearer, but exactly. I'm breaking it and them. They thought this was a bounty hunter campaign. lol!

Your players should have a blast!

 

[Terry Mixon]

Your players should have a blast!

And I just added a bit more detail as you were posting. They are having a lot of fun.

 

[MasterGwydion]

And I just added a bit more detail as you were posting. They are having a lot of fun.

and that is why We do what We do!

 

[Galadrion]

If it's a starport in the 3I, it's run by the SPA. If it's in the 3I and not run by the SPA, it's a spaceport, not a starport... although a spaceport can be just as developed and have just as much capacity as a starport. Thus, a corporate spaceport (I'm sure LSP runs a few which aren't necessarily based out of the local starport - for secret projects, if nothing else) can have just as much shipbuilding capability as any class A starport, if the owning body has reason to spend for the capability. (In point of fact, this is how I get around the chicken-and-egg problem of "how did the major races develop jump ships without a class A yard in the first place?") Even a local in-system corporation can build their own class F spaceport (with a starship-capable shipyard) if they feel the need - and have the resources - and then start building their own starships. Now, since they may well be the only game in town (as far as building starships locally goes), they've got a monopoly... so buying a starship on that planet may not (probably won't) be as cheap as the High Guard price... but there's a chance you could buy such a thing.

 

[MasterGwydion]

If it's a starport in the 3I, it's run by the SPA. If it's in the 3I and not run by the SPA, it's a spaceport, not a starport... although a spaceport can be just as developed and have just as much capacity as a starport. Thus, a corporate spaceport (I'm sure LSP runs a few which aren't necessarily based out of the local starport - for secret projects, if nothing else) can have just as much shipbuilding capability as any class A starport, if the owning body has reason to spend for the capability. (In point of fact, this is how I get around the chicken-and-egg problem of "how did the major races develop jump ships without a class A yard in the first place?") Even a local in-system corporation can build their own class F spaceport (with a starship-capable shipyard) if they feel the need - and have the resources - and then start building their own starships. Now, since they may well be the only game in town (as far as building starships locally goes), they've got a monopoly... so buying a starship on that planet may not (probably won't) be as cheap as the High Guard price... but there's a chance you could buy such a thing.

For the most part I ignore the basic Starport Class of a starport. I take a look at the write up for the world, figure out the Trade Routes that pass through it and tons of other details and then decide what kind of shipyard makes sense. A little 200-ton shipyard can still build Shuttles and Scout Ships and 150MCr for a jump-capable shipyard is chump change, the price of 2 Subsidized Merchants. If you have enough traffic for a Class-C Starport, then a shipyard is easy. Game-wise, shipbuilding capacity is one of the least important parts of a Starport. IMO anyhow. I hate that, that Shipbuilding is the defining trait of a Starport in the UWP. My players almost never need to know if said Starport has a shipyard or not since they don't need them for maintenance anymore.

 

[Terry Mixon]

For the most part I ignore the basic Starport Class of a starport. I take a look at the write up for the world, figure out the Trade Routes that pass through it and tons of other details and then decide what kind of shipyard makes sense. A little 200-ton shipyard can still build Shuttles and Scout Ships and 150MCr for a jump-capable shipyard is chump change, the price of 2 Subsidized Merchants. If you have enough traffic for a Class-C Starport, then a shipyard is easy. Game-wise, shipbuilding capacity is one of the least important parts of a Starport. IMO anyhow. I hate that, that Shipbuilding is the defining trait of a Starport in the UWP. My players almost never need to know if said Starport has a shipyard or not since they don't need them for maintenance anymore.

A mobile shipyard… That would be cool. Are any documented? If not, I may have to rough out one of my own.

 

[Condottiere]

It would be very rare for an Imperium system not to have some form of starport, if only to keep track of interstellar traffic.

Anything that needed maintenance or repair, could be directed to a privately owned garage, off premises, if the starport doesn't have those facilities.

 

[MasterGwydion]

A mobile shipyard… That would be cool. Are any documented? If not, I may have to rough out one of my own.

Shipyards can be built on ships. Construction Deck HG page 61