Spirit of 1977
Cosmic Mongoose
Does MgT state when practical world level terraforming begins? It doesn't begin until TL 16 in MegaT, though continental level terraforming begins around TL 12.
The Premises of Traveller: 3. Most Worlds are Unimportant
- Thread starter Spirit of 1977
- Start date
Just on the subject of the domination of big worlds.
Years ago I used the GURPS Free Trader data to put together a sort of trade atlas of the Glisten and D268.
Turned out that Glisten had about 75% of the economic power in its subsector and about 58% in the 2 combined subsectors
Years ago I used the GURPS Free Trader data to put together a sort of trade atlas of the Glisten and D268.
Turned out that Glisten had about 75% of the economic power in its subsector and about 58% in the 2 combined subsectors
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
All I put in the WBH was the Tent World para-terraforming at TL12-13.
Actual open-air terraforming, I didn't say much, but the answer is probably 'it depends on the definition of practical'. At TL8 it's the 10,000 - 100,000 year imagined Mars process. Probably getting down to a century or three by TL15, and at TL25 for the Genesis Machine, though self-replicating nanoswarms (the grey goo variety) I put at TL23 in Robots.
Which just illustrates that for non-interdicted Imperial worlds Tech Level is largely meaningless - clearly TL5 Thisbe has some TL8+ spacecraft doing that comet finding and ice hauling even if it lacks the capacity to build them itself.
As a fairly new Traveller, I've specifically chosen NOT to play within any settled area and just create random sectors. I've yet to decide if this has helped or hindered the ability for story hooks. I don't have any of the Imperium history books to build off of and know very little beyond the small bits sprinkled throughout the rulebooks. As a result, we end up with more of an "episodic" type play where the planets tend to be more localized and adventures contained relatively close by.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
For my latest game I have gone through the original GDW Spinward Marches supplement.
I copied every long form detail of named worlds and for my game put them all in the same subsector. I then checked TAS News, Amber zones, every adventure and double adventure, and added those worlds.
I copied every long form detail of named worlds and for my game put them all in the same subsector. I then checked TAS News, Amber zones, every adventure and double adventure, and added those worlds.
For my games, I generally run in the Islands subsectors, but definitely modified. I've liked the setting since it came out in Trillion Credit Squadron back in the CT days. But I've added secondary worlds to systems and imported stuff from published materials that I liked. I'm a big fan of filling out solar systems with minor colonies, outposts, and the like.
Sansterre (an Ocean world) in my campaign is more or less Bellerophon from Nomads of the World Ocean, which is technically on the other side of the Imperium in the Vegan Sphere. Places like Mithril make fine secondary worlds instead of primary worlds.
Sansterre (an Ocean world) in my campaign is more or less Bellerophon from Nomads of the World Ocean, which is technically on the other side of the Imperium in the Vegan Sphere. Places like Mithril make fine secondary worlds instead of primary worlds.
One of the reasons that I like the Islands is that its 2 subsectors that are basically isolated by the Rift. There's *some* contact, but that 8 parsec gap is going to keep the campaign contained enough that recurring characters and locations make sense without needing any other reasons. And I like that the TL is pretty consistent in the 9-12 range across the region (There's one 13 and a couple 6s and 7s, as written, but 75% of the worlds fall in that range).
I would always strongly recommend this approach. The OTU does come with a fair amount of baggage that I don't know if it is worth it anymore. I prefer a more Ozymandias style setting where the Solomani are encountering the ruins of the Vilani empire deep into their Long Night.
steveh
Mongoose
I hadn't thought about the data like that, but I had other thoughts about how Traveller generates its worlds.
I don't mind the fact that Traveller has a small number of highly populated worlds - that makes sense.
I have more issues with the fact that the original Traveller rules put those populations absolutely anywhere - often on inhospitable planets - and at low TLs.
I was thinking about Rethe/Regina recently. According to 1981's The Traveller Book (and I know things have since changed), it is a moon-sized desert world with a very thin atmosphere and 26 billion people living on it. At TL8. With an E-class starport.
(And Enope is probably worse - 6 billion people living on a small dry rock with a trace atmosphere at TL7! And no obvious nearby source of food.)
As part of all that, I ended up thinking about how neighbouring systems should affect each other—particularly their social characteristics. If billions of people live on worlds with artificial habitats at lowish TLs, why? Why are they drawn there? It must be worth it, otherwise their populations would decline. (I like to think that populous worlds are thriving as I like my far futures to be optimistic.)
It's all fun to think about, and it doesn't really affect the game at the table.
Well, part of the intention is to create interesting worlds full of sci fi weirdness and need for adventure. Not boring sensible worlds where rando ne'erdowells are unwelcome. 
Also need to remember that the TL is a very fuzzy number. That's the average available TL. What's the TL of today's Earth? What's available to NASA and the US military? or what's available to the average rural Indian or Chinese? Because there's a lot more of them than anyone else.
So, as you say, thinking about why they are there and how it works is fun part of the setting. A feature, not a bug
Also need to remember that the TL is a very fuzzy number. That's the average available TL. What's the TL of today's Earth? What's available to NASA and the US military? or what's available to the average rural Indian or Chinese? Because there's a lot more of them than anyone else.
So, as you say, thinking about why they are there and how it works is fun part of the setting. A feature, not a bug
steveh
Mongoose
Yes, completely. That's why Rethe at TL 8 and Enope at TL 7 don't make sense to me. We couldn't have a billion people living on the moon or Mars - we're not technologically advanced enough. I would nudge their TLs upwards a bit to make them more feasible.
Seffix
Emperor Mongoose
Lots of options there also, is there a TL inequality being used to support the masses at their expense? Is the TL in decline with potentially disastrous consequences coming soon? Is there bad data in the library that is being used to scam investors? All sorts of adventure fodder.
Yeah. Rethe has a charismatic dictator. Is he popular and autocratic because he owns/maintains the life support? Did he recently nationalize the life support formerly provided by an outside company? It is a former colony where the life support was provided by the homeworld, but all other manufacturing and tech was heavily controlled to the homeworld's benefit and the dictator led a recent revolution and now its "how do we keep the stuff running?"
If its an oxygen atmosphere that is just very thin, a respirator is required per the Traveller rules and that's not *that* unreasonable. If it's a Martian atmosphere (very thin, but mainly CO2) then, of course, you need full time oxygen, which is much more challenging.
Another possibility is that there are deep crevices with thicker atmosphere "below sea level" that are more hospitable. Though that's a pretty high pop for that solution.
Obviously, boosting the TL is the easiest solution.
If its an oxygen atmosphere that is just very thin, a respirator is required per the Traveller rules and that's not *that* unreasonable. If it's a Martian atmosphere (very thin, but mainly CO2) then, of course, you need full time oxygen, which is much more challenging.
Another possibility is that there are deep crevices with thicker atmosphere "below sea level" that are more hospitable. Though that's a pretty high pop for that solution.
Obviously, boosting the TL is the easiest solution.
More or less the plot of MOST of the Dumarest books, ngl.
It is!
One innovation in TNE was the govt type of TED Technologically Elevated Dictatorship - covering the many post-Virus worlds where tech level in general has collapsed but an elite maintains power due to having legacy or imported higher tech.
Which in effect may well imply to many pre-Virus worlds with lower tech - most of the population may be at TL 4 or whatever but the ruling class has access to much higher tech - and the higher the population the more such tech they should be able to import.
Which in effect may well imply to many pre-Virus worlds with lower tech - most of the population may be at TL 4 or whatever but the ruling class has access to much higher tech - and the higher the population the more such tech they should be able to import.
There is one minor nibbling issue with Marc's assignment of nobility based upon certain "set in amber" aspects of any given world...
Worlds that have actual nobility on them, qualify as "Imperial" worlds - worlds without noble representation qualify as what precisely? If you take a hard look at what worlds have what Nobility, the cutoff seems to be worlds with a pop 5 or Pop 6 rating. This in turn implies to me - based on T5 rules, that worlds without a Baron or higher representative, are in fact, either "resource harvesting worlds" or they are "colonies" striving to reach a status where they meet the requirements of being represented in a Moot.
This coupled with the Ministries listed in GURPS TRAVELLER: NOBLES - gives me a working framework that makes sense for me. If a Megacorporation or a series of corporations want to set up a resource gathering business model - that's fine. If they want to be high control rating worlds - that's fine. But technically, they're not sovereign worlds with sovereign governments. They're outposts, they're' colonies hopefully maturing, they're way-stop locations much as towns may have sprung up on the Silk Trade route. Once I took that view, things started to fall into place for me.
In the end, now that I'm being forced to relocate my focus on Traveller Worlds (I tended to focus on Lunion for my campaigns) - I have to look at the Empire of Sindal in the Trojan Reaches and try to reconcile the history with what is generated for UWP for there. As GM, I'm thinking "how long does it take for orbital bombardment sites to erode away?" when it comes to describing worlds for a player using FANTASY GROUNDS VTT application?
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