Foreven, What do You Want to See?

[dmccoy1693]

As you may have read on Facebook or G+, JBE is heavily working on Foreven. We've got parts written and a solid outline for the parts that are not. But I wanted to ask you, what do you want included in it? Here's a number of the themes we have worked out so far:

• hotbed for Imperium and Zhodani proxy wars (agents of the Imperium as well as SORAG will feature prominently),
• small empires trying to hold their own against Imperium and Zhodani operatives,
• lots of illegal tech smuggling,
• little warlords drunk with power,
• line between piracy and mercenary outfit will be blurred to near nothingness,
• good people on the ragged edge drying to scrape out a living while criminals, warlords and major governments are ever encroaching,
• Avalar Consulate will be a poor melting pot of vilani, zhodani, aslan, and solomani (yes, a few colony words of the solomani out here as well), trying to impose a zhodani style government structure on them

Like I said, these are a few of what is already going into the sector. Is there something you want to see that we have not included yet? Please tell us. We would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I posted a few of my thought on the planet of Avalar and the Avalar Consulate. Read all about it and tell us what you think.

 

[hdan]

It all sounds good to me. I always wished for a more comprehensive version of Far Frontiers and other "spinward of spinward" sectors, and the idea of a lot of small "empires" of a half dozen to maybe a score of worlds floating in a sea of unaligned worlds is a very appealing setting to me.

Having Imperials and Zhos as persistent "bad guys" is fun, as is the idea that it's not unusual for small player-party sized groups to style themselves as "companies" and go around merc-ing and privateering to wherever the money is.

It would be fun to include some potentially "weird" elements, like non-"The Ancients" ruins of lost civilizations (or are they truly lost?).

I'd also like to see more people adopt the Outer Veil's life stat in the UWPs. Basically, it's a way to rate life complexity (from none to full biosphere) and percent compatibility with human biology. I don't know how proprietary Spica feels about that system though. Their OGL doesn't specifically release that content, though they have made all their UWPs Open Content, and you can't fully interpret them without knowing what those codes are.

They seem like reasonable folks, so I bet a simple email would clear this matter up.

 

[GypsyComet]

Foreven is an open canvas, despite the responses to this same post on CotI.

Far Frontiers is a different matter, and should probably have its own topic so as not to distract from Foreven.

 

[hdan]

Far Frontiers is a different matter, and should probably have its own topic so as not to distract from Foreven.

No, I realize that and didn't mean to bring "Far Frontiers" into the conversation. I only mentioned it as another spinward-of-spinward sector that exists outside the 3I.

Your version of Foreven sounds very interesting, and the crazy Avalar culture seems ripe for RP exploitation.

 

[Wil Mireu]

I'm curious - why does JBE think Foreven is worth bothering with, as opposed to just making up their own setting?

Other publishers haven't really done much with it, more I think because the Foreven license is so limiting. If you're forced to make your own self-contained Third Imperium setting that can't mention anything outside it, why not just make up a new setting without those limitations instead? Plus a Foreven setting isn't official at all, so the canon-collectors won't really care about it.

 

[Infojunky]

I'm curious - why does JBE think Foreven is worth bothering with, as opposed to just making up their own setting?

I kinda agree with this sentiment. When I think about Traveller I don't specifically think about the 3rd imperium setting, but I draw on lots of those resources without needing the specific trappings.

 

[dmccoy1693]

I'm curious - why does JBE think Foreven is worth bothering with, as opposed to just making up their own setting?

Good question Wil. There are lots of reasons.

1) I want to. Ultimately, this is the main reason. Even if everything else I am going to list wasn't true, I'd still do it for this one reason.

2) I don't feel the need to reinvent the wheel. I love reading about and building new settings. Its in my blood as a designer. However, I'd rather build on what has come before instead of starting all over. I like the OTU and I feel that I have something to offer that others are going to enjoy. At the same time, I don't have to take the time to explain how humanity left earth, got to the stars, colonized worlds, met aliens, etc. I don't have to come up with all the baseline ships. All I have to focus on is who is/was in this sector of space and what makes this sector unique.

3) Creating your own setting is tricky. When you create a new setting you have the momentum going against you of those in an existing campaign. I mean if you started a campaign in the spinward marches 6 months ago, you're not real likely to jump to a star trek setting right away (just as an example). And if you've been playing in the marches for a decade or two, you're really not likely to jump to another setting. It is more likely that that group will take an excursion into Foreven, even if it is not "official."

4) Adventure conversion is easier. I'm not just working on the setting. We have a number of adventures planned. And while my adventures may not be official canon and take place in Foreven, the fact that the adventures use (again, as an example) imperial agents as good guys, zhodani as bad guys, and have aslan and vargrs and darrians and so forth will make it much easier for a Ref to reskin to whatever world they are playing on if they do not use my Foreven setting itself.

5) Its a Great Starting Off Point For Other People's Foreven Sector. I know there are many home designers out there. And sure you can take ideas from anywhere, I believe in what we are doing enough that even those that do not use what I produce as a whole, they may lift what sections of it straight into their game.

You are right. Those that only go for official material only are not likely to buy this. I don't believe, however, there are nearly that many that will completely object because it has not been given the official stamp of approval. I've seen far too many ATUs that take the OTU, blend it with their own ideas and steal from others. I've met many that care more about "quality" than "official." And I know many gamers that will pick up something and read it for the pure enjoyment of it, even if they never use it. Those are my people.

 

[Wil Mireu]

Personally I'm skeptical (and to be clear I think the reasons you provide are sound, I'm just not convinced that there will be enough sales to support a big commitment to Foreven). But I guess someone has to take the risk and dive into it big time at some point to see what does actually happen, so good luck .

What will be interesting is if more publishers commit to it and there ends up being several different takes on Foreven floating around.

 

[dmccoy1693]

so good luck .

Thanks.

What will be interesting is if more publishers commit to it and there ends up being several different takes on Foreven floating around.

I don't think it is nervousness about market size that has kept publishers away thus far. I think it is more licensing concerns over "when/if mongoose's license with traveller ends, will I be able to sell my book?" Ultimately, that may be a problem, but the "I want to do it" reason built enough to the point where I said, "screw it, do the project."

Maybe me going for it might bring more publishers into it. But I am not sure.

 

[GypsyComet]

What will be interesting is if more publishers commit to it and there ends up being several different takes on Foreven floating around.

I know of one rather ambitious effort that seems to have gotten stuck in development hell. No idea if it will ever see the light of day.

 

[Wil Mireu]

I don't think it is nervousness about market size that has kept publishers away thus far. I think it is more licensing concerns over "when/if mongoose's license with traveller ends, will I be able to sell my book?" Ultimately, that may be a problem, but the "I want to do it" reason built enough to the point where I said, "screw it, do the project."

Maybe me going for it might bring more publishers into it. But I am not sure.

I was thinking more along the lines of the fact that the various different versions of Foreven won't be compatible with eachother because they'll be contradictory. Unless all the third party publishers get together and make a "shared Foreven", perhaps?

 

[GypsyComet]

I'm rather taken by the idea of mixing and matching, but that requires a certain amount of conscious and voluntary compartmentalization. If, for example, one publisher's take on the cluster tucked into the rim-trailing corner is not dependent on their version of Avalar, then another version of Avalar could be used instead. The same goes for the state that sits on the border with Far Frontiers, the local "feel" of the Zhodani worlds, the two big stateless regions, and could even be applied to multiple zones within Avalar.

That said, I think such an approach should be a multiple publisher effort. Even one version of a sector can be a lot of work.

 

[dmccoy1693]

According to the license, there's nothing stopping another publisher building on someoneelse's Foreven.

 

[Nerhesi]

I prefer the OTU setting and am very much interested in it. I personally do not buy traveller products that are not Third Imperium, unless they're Core rules/supplements.

So other than the supplements and the mongoose "Book 1 through 10 or whatever", I am only buying 3rd Imperium Products. So I would definitely be purchasing this.

Very interested in a sector that is less "big empire" and more smaller worlds/empires.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I would like to see Foreven Sector be fairly consistent with current canon, but being a kitchen sink sort of guy myself, I would like to see the following put in as much as possible.

- As a homage to the past Traveller, keep as many references allowed to the apocryphal CT sectors surrounding Foreven as allowed.

- Backdate the remaining info found from the Imperiallines newsletters to fit what Foreven looks like in 1105.

- A small, full blown TL 17+ polity that cannot be easily taken over by Imps or Zhos. Unlike the Darrians, they have something more mundane than the Star Trigger. Both sides would love to take it over, but cannot due to some factor, say limited FTL communication and Portal Technology that allows them to have a fleet with "instant available" response. For those who say this tech does not exist the OTU, I would refer people to Campaign 1: Secrets of the Ancients and the tech found in IY-300000

- One new "minor race", maybe the owners of the systems above. As a foil for Zhodani and Imps, their minds cannot be read and are sufficiently nonhuman you cannot disguise a spy as one.

You write it Dale , I will buy it. I have said that before. For others, I simply have to say
It's Foreven Sector, anything can happen here

 

[GypsyComet]

- One new "minor race", maybe the owners of the systems above. As a foil for Zhodani and Imps, their minds cannot be read and are sufficiently nonhuman you cannot disguise a spy as one.

The H'mag have been part of the "default" Foreven for what, 15 years?

Picture this with wing-hands, an officious attitude that only a Newt can really appreciate, and a gun.
http://cdn1.arkive.org/media/3F/3FF1675A-8ECA-4509-B710-56F735DD756F/Presentation.Large/Captive-secretarybird-calling.jpg

 

[dmccoy1693]

Good news for you, Nathan,

- As a homage to the past Traveller, keep as many references allowed to the apocryphal CT sectors surrounding Foreven as allowed.

Going into this, one of my plans for Foreven is to stay as consistent with existing Traveller canon as possible so all political border and scout routes/trade lanes crossing Foreven's borders will be maintained. The Zhodani border inside Foreven will not change. The way that the zoomed in view of TravellerMap.com of Foreven's borders looks right now will be kept.

- Backdate the remaining info found from the Imperiallines newsletters to fit what Foreven looks like in 1105.

I already have plans to make some changes, particularly to the Avalar Consulate's borders inside Foreven. I don't want to make them as big they are. I them still in flux, allowing the players the ability to have a serious impact on the sector's outcome.

- A small, full blown TL 17+ polity that cannot be easily taken over by Imps or Zhos. Unlike the Darrians, they have something more mundane than the Star Trigger. Both sides would love to take it over, but cannot due to some factor, say limited FTL communication and Portal Technology that allows them to have a fleet with "instant available" response. For those who say this tech does not exist the OTU, I would refer people to Campaign 1: Secrets of the Ancients and the tech found in IY-300000

My current outline has an empty world in it with ancient defense systems still on. While no ships have yet to penetrate its defenses, that doesn't mean there isn't a way out there ... somewhere.

- One new "minor race", maybe the owners of the systems above. As a foil for Zhodani and Imps, their minds cannot be read and are sufficiently nonhuman you cannot disguise a spy as one.

I've got a few ideas for minor races. I want to limit it to 1. I'm thinking I'll put it to a poll once I have my ideas fleshed out a bit more.

You write it Dale , I will buy it.

Wahoo! Thank you.

 

[dmccoy1693]

Plus a Foreven setting isn't official at all, so the canon-collectors won't really care about it.

In the interest of full disclosure, I discovered a blog post this morning where (and no I am not making any of this up) a French-speaking Traveller player basically accused me of the ultimate sin because I am daring to publish a Foreven Sector.

So yes, there are those out there that will hate me for it. But I am actually kind of intrigued that I can spark that kind of visceral anger in someone. This one doesn't have as much as some of his earlier posts on me. Search the site for them. It is an interesting read.

Mind you, the author is not exactly positive on anyone else's Traveller offerings in the past 5 years so I am not taking his complaints to heart.

 

[Wil Mireu]

In the interest of full disclosure, I discovered a blog post this morning where (and no I am not making any of this up) a French-speaking Traveller player basically accused me of the ultimate sin because I am daring to publish a Foreven Sector.

He seems to be more put out by the disappointment of T5 and how poorly he thinks that Mongoose has handled Traveller than anything you've done.

Granted, in previous posts he doesn't like your stuff (to be honest, I facepalm every time I see a new d66 list myself and tend to agree with his assessment of them), but he doesn't seem to be accusing you of the "ultimate sin" by doing a Foreven sector. Though either way I doubt that you could count him as a potential customer anyway.