Mongoose Foreven Sector Data (With Borders!) for TravellerMap

[Terry Mixon]

After a bunch of calculating and typing, I have what I believe is an accurate sector data file (with UWP and Trade codes) as well as the border data file for the Mongoose version of the Foreven sector for TravellerMap done. Yes, yes, I know that this is a GM preserve and the gods should tremble at the temerity of mere mortals encroaching on this sacred preserve, but I wanted to trade there and needed trade codes, so I just did the whole thing so I can match other sector maps. Now my hours of labor can benefit those who want to take advantage of it.

This entailed taking the default Foreven sector files from TravellerMap, deleting the hexes that no longer had worlds, and in one or two cases, adding worlds where none existed before. I changed the number of gas giants to match the provided Mongoose sector map so that the hexes with gas giants actually had them where appropriate and removed them for the same reason. I added bases where needed to the files as well. And, because I felt guilty about taking all the gas giants away, I occasionally added a planetoid belt or two to salve my conscience.

I only included the names in the Sector Construction Guide, so you'll have to add your own for the blanks.

I double checked everything as well as I could, but I'm sure that errors crept in. If you spot any, just let me know and I'll update the files.

This should provide a foundation to make it easier for others to start with something to customize the sector to suit their needs without having to do the work from scratch like I did.

EDIT: Because my heresy was not grave enough, I added the subsector and system names to two new files in the zip for those who have no desire to name everything in sight. The names came from The Zhodani Base and are duly credited. That completes the files for your use. I hope.

Enjoy.

 

[tytalan]

I alway find the “GM persevere “ to be BS there are other sectors that fit that description much better and it was originally a passing comment that some how become gospel. But doesn’t the sector construction box set already have that sector done?

 

[Terry Mixon]

I alway find the “GM persevere “ to be BS there are other sectors that fit that description much better and it was originally a passing comment that some how become gospel. But doesn’t the sector construction box set already have that sector done?

Only to a degree. The UWPs are on the sector map and some of the worlds are named. The rest is undefined.

 

[Vormaerin]

I know you are just joking, but nothing you are doing is heresy. There are multiple examples of the Foreven sector out there. Which is actually the point. If you want to use the example in the sector creation guide, great. If you want to use one of the other ones, great. If you want to make your own entirely from scratch, great.

All the "GM preserve" means is that the publishers will develop the other 50+ undefined sectors instead. I don't really get it, but some folks don't like when there's an "official" version that conflicts with their own, but they still want to be in Charted Space. And, especially in the early days when lots of 3rd party publishers were being allowed to put out sections of Charted Space, a bunch of folks didn't want to build up their own campaigns just to have later material conflict with it. So that's why this exists.

Basically all of those 3rd party "land grants" have reverted to FFE and then to Mongoose now (and Mongoose versions of many of them exist). Mongoose *could* publish a Foreven sector. There's nothing legally binding to keep them from doing so. But why overturn this precedent when they still need to develop Antares, Vland, and so many other places that would be as or more interesting?

 

[MasterGwydion]

I always thought keeping Foreven undefined was stupid. It I want to play in somewhere undefined, I will write My own setting and not play in Charted Space. I play in Charted Space because I enjoy Charted Space.

 

[Condottiere]

I think Sembia was left largely alone in the Forgotten Realms, to demographize as the Dungeon Master wished, with some vague details of a confederation of seven trading cities.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I think Sembia was left largely alone in the Forgotten Realms, to demographize as the Dungeon Master wished, with some vague details of a confederation of seven trading cities.

Sembia has a ton of detail written about it.

 

[Vormaerin]

Some people like having everything defined. Some people like having room to integrate their own stuff into existing material because they have an idea for a small area, but don't want to invent the whole world. Some people want to homebrew everything.

Good settings, imho, cater to a variety of tastes. There's like 14 or so sectors defined for MgT2e and another couple for 1e. There's many, many more that are done up in Grand Survey list of UWPs style, but don't have a full sector book. There is just one being left alone for those who want to homebrew within Charted Space. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[MasterGwydion]

If I want a homebrew area in an established setting, I just pull out a small polity and throw one of My making in it's place. Or add a new Cultural Area to the Imperium. That way I get the best of both methods. I get a complete sector, but I can mix and match material as well.

What I don't like about Foreven is that the first method has been completely negated and the only option I have is to homebrew it. Since the new FFW books, there has been more interest in playing along the borders of the Marches. Foreven literally touches the 3I in the Five Sisters and we know nothing about it.

 

[Terry Mixon]

If I want a homebrew area in an established setting, I just pull out a small polity and throw one of My making in it's place. Or add a new Cultural Area to the Imperium. That way I get the best of both methods. I get a complete sector, but I can mix and match material as well.

What I don't like about Foreven is that the first method has been completely negated and the only option I have is to homebrew it. Since the new FFW books, there has been more interest in playing along the borders of the Marches. Foreven literally touches the 3I in the Five Sisters and we know nothing about it.

Agreed.

 

[Vormaerin]

Not everyone works that way, though. This wasn't done as a weird dev decision. This was specifically asked for by the player base. Back in the 70s and 80s there was a lot of "please don't define everything. I want to be able to add my own stuff to Charted Space without having to conflict with published stuff."

Foreven was specifically picked *because* it was close to the primary play area. So people could do their home brew and still do the Spinward Marches content (which was 90% of the GDW content at the time) and Far Frontiers (where the Keith Brothers were doing a lot of popular adventures). That's a feature, not a bug.

And, as far as Mongoose workload goes, I strongly suspect that if you held a poll for Sector Most In Need of a Book, Antares & one of its neighbors would win going away.

 

[Terry Mixon]

For me, I needed a minimum amount of detail so that I could do trading. Sadly, the Sector Construction Guide laid out the UWP codes (on the map but not in the book) but gave no trade codes. I believe that if you've gone to the lengths to generate those, at least making tables with the subsectors and trade information is needed. I believe Gier said the original draft had them in the book, but they were likely cut for space. That, in my opinion, was a mistake.

I asked in a thread about the possibility of Mongoose putting those tables as a download, but as no one responded to me, it likely never got seen. So, I took the minimum steps I could to make the sector usable for my needs. When I'd incorporated their information and generated the trade codes, I put them in a format TravellerMap could recognize. I did include an alternate set of files with system and subsector names from the other sources for people like me that hate naming things.

The end result here is that the only lore is what is in the Sector Construction Guide, so It's my take on the Mongoose playpen for people to add and change to their heart's content. It is what I believe they should have provided to make the sector useable for people that don't want to homebrew while still keeping things clean for those who do. I know that I will be able to take this and easily create lore to slot into it now. It's finally usable, whereas what they provided in the Sector Construction Guide was not.

And if Mongoose wants to take this and make it a download, I say go for it. I'm sure others would find it helpful in making the sector useful and many folks will never see it here.

 

[Vormaerin]

yeah, the sector construction guide is kind of an odd duck. It is a "here's a hypothetical Foreven sector to demonstrate how to build your own sector but it isn't official and won't be used for anything." I would have just built a sector from scratch personally.

Hopefully folks will get some use out of your work. Dunno if the TAS program would cover publishing it or if it's limited to Fair Use.

 

[Terry Mixon]

yeah, the sector construction guide is kind of an odd duck. It is a "here's a hypothetical Foreven sector to demonstrate how to build your own sector but it isn't official and won't be used for anything." I would have just built a sector from scratch personally.

Hopefully folks will get some use out of your work. Dunno if the TAS program would cover publishing it or if it's limited to Fair Use.

No clue. I'd hope it is fair use, though as I don't want to have to publish it. Mongoose should.

For that matter, if they wanted to put it on TravellerMap, that would help a lot of people, too. More than it being a download, I suppose.

 

[Vormaerin]

It's definitely fair use.

Mongoose does own Traveller now, so they aren't bound by things Marc Miller wants. So they could make it official and publish it if they wanted to.

 

[tytalan]

I think we need Foreven flushed out because it’s smack dab in the middle of a large chuck of already published sectors. With Vanguard and Beyond in the Spinward Extents, Spinward Marches and Deben in behind the claw, Trojan Reach in Pirates of Drinax and Far Frontiers getting at least some details in Sky Raiders. I would expect the “GMs Playground “ to be moved to somewhere more off the beaten path like Mikhail. Especially with it being mostly flush out in the sector construction box set. I mean give me a break all that’s missing is trade codes and world names. They should just bundle it up with Far Frontiers (even if Sky Raders only has a Subsector or two people running it will want the whole sector) call it the Spinward Expanse and be done with it.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think we need Foreven flushed out because it’s smack dab in the middle of a large chuck of already published sectors. With Vanguard and Beyond in the spindward Extents, Spinward Marches and Deben in behind the claw, Trojan Reach in Pirates of Drinax and Far Frontiers getting at least some details in Sky Pirates. I would expect the “GMs Playground “ to be moved to somewhere more off the beaten path like Mikhail. Especially with it being mostly flush out in the sector construction box set. I mean give me a break all that’s missing is trade codes and world names. They should just bundle it up with Far Frontiers (even if sky pirates only has a Subsector or two people running it will want the whole sector) call it the Spinward Expanse and be done with it.

I wish they would.

 

[Vormaerin]

I really hope they don't. Not because of the GM preserve, which I think would be reason enough, but because it's more of the same.

We have three sectors of "small polities on the Imperial-Zhodani fringe". If they give us yet another book of that stuff, I'll be seriously disappointed and annoyed. Been there, done that, have several T-shirts.

Do something new. Rim Expeditions was a new situation to deal with, unlike any other regional sourcebook before it. Give GMs more options of kinds of campaign to play. Ideally, Antares + Mendan or the Empty Quarter to give us a totally different political rivalry for the Imperium featuring Vargr primarily. Or down in the Hinterworlds towards the Hivers, who have barely featured in Traveller except in T:NE.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I really hope they don't. Not because of the GM preserve, which I think would be reason enough, but because it's more of the same.

We have three sectors of "small polities on the Imperial-Zhodani fringe". If they give us yet another book of that stuff, I'll be seriously disappointed and annoyed. Been there, done that, have several T-shirts.

Do something new. Rim Expeditions was a new situation to deal with, unlike any other regional sourcebook before it. Give GMs more options of kinds of campaign to play. Ideally, Antares + Mendan or the Empty Quarter to give us a totally different political rivalry for the Imperium featuring Vargr primarily. Or down in the Hinterworlds towards the Hivers, who have barely featured in Traveller except in T:NE.

I want both. I want it all.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I want both. I want it all.

Me too. The Borderlands feel entirely changed after Pirates of Drinax came out. Why assume everything would be more of the same? Each sector should feel different. Remember, the 3I isn't just 11,000 worlds, it is 11,000 different cultures. So, if every border-area sector book feels the same, then that is just lazy writing and reaseach. Heck, Zhodani society isn't monolithic either.