Grognardia
Emperor Mongoose
Marc Miller’s statement is from 2008, so about 16 years ago. Given that it was from the creator of the game, I think it still holds quite a bit of weight in discussions about Foreven’s original purpose.
Mongoose Foreven Sector Data (With Borders!) for TravellerMap
- Thread starter Terry Mixon
- Start date
Yes you are trying to dictate to all other tables how to play. A) he said you immature GM not that you were immature two different things. B) actually I’d say you’re making it hard to take your arguments seriously when you expressly ignore the point that there’s a plenty of other unpopulated sectors. C) actually it does because if they do the sector you have a choice if they don’t we don’t have a choice.
The original statement was 35 years ago. And having met Marc I can tell you that he’s only going with the flow, great guy but very much an introvert.
I'm defending a decision made by both the creator of the game, and the current publishers of the game. Numerous times, it has been stated that there are 'no reasons to not change'. I'm showing that is blatantly not true, even if you dislike those reasons. I'd say you're making it hard to take other arguments seriously when you expressly ignore the point that there's a plenty of other populated sectors. Because if they don't do the sector, you have a choice [to play in another sector anyway], if they do, we don't have a choice [to play in a sector near FFW that isn't already pre-populated].
Actually your defending an Old decision Mongoose hasn’t made a statement either way and let the sector be done in the sector construction box set. Actually you haven’t given a single reason not to change other than it’s always been that way, well that’s an argument that’s been used to stall progress forever. None of those other populated sectors are currently in the thick of things with a major meta plot and a campaign that’s has possible connections. How do you not have a choice this is a complete fallacy and is not true. While there’s absolutely no disadvantage for you to ignore any version they would publish there is definitely a disadvantage to those of us that want to play in a sector near FFW without having to spend extra work and time to create the sector.
This thread started as an announcement of a cool thing. Terry polished up Geir's homebrew of the Foreven sector so folks who wanted something pre-made could take full advantage of it. Does that not answer the need of the 'must have pre-made stuff' players? You can consider it official because it was in their "how to homebrew" book that is an official publication.
And all the people who use Foreven for its intended purpose can continue to use it for their own homebrews and can buy 5FW and other stuff without having to edit out Foreven stuff that isn't true in their Charted Space.
And the folks who don't care about Foreven at all can feel confident that if Mongoose makes another sector book, it'll be somewhere different.
Why are we not at a win-win here?
And all the people who use Foreven for its intended purpose can continue to use it for their own homebrews and can buy 5FW and other stuff without having to edit out Foreven stuff that isn't true in their Charted Space.
And the folks who don't care about Foreven at all can feel confident that if Mongoose makes another sector book, it'll be somewhere different.
Why are we not at a win-win here?
Actually this is not done there are no names to the system or trade codes which was what people asked be done.
again with the more of the fallacy that if they do a official version you can’t make your own. What is mongoose going to do send the police to take your books away if you don’t use their version?
Simply because by not completing the sector it useless for those of use that don’t have the time to do it themselves. That the whole nature of setting splat books they are to assist GMs who have limit time or other resources.
. if you think this argument is more worthy of your time than that, that's your choice.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I calculated the trade codes and they are in the files. I also created an additional pair of files with the names from The Zhodoni Base included. I developed no lore beyond what was in the Sector Construction Guide, but the foundation is in those files to build on.Actually this is not done there are no names to the system or trade codes which was what people asked be done.
again with the more of the fallacy that if they do a official version you can’t make your own. What is mongoose going to do send the police to take your books away if you don’t use their version?
Simply because by not completing the sector it useless for those of use that don’t have the time to do it themselves. That the whole nature of setting splat books they are to assist GMs who have limit time or other resources.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I’d like to see it, for sure. Of course, there are a lot of sectors I’d like to see covered, but Foreven is right there for the Fifth Frontier War. Seems needful.
Grognardia
Emperor Mongoose
There are many other sectors that needs development. I suggest doing those first - as opposed to a supposedly 'GM fiat' sector. 
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I hear you, but Foreven is in the thick of things with the FFW breaking out. It's a terrible place to have a spot with no official content. It may not be mentioned much now, but be assured that the Zhodoni will be moving fleets through it. It would not be shocking at all if there were battles there if the Imperium pushes them back. The fact that Far Frontiers will be developed in The Sky Raiders makes that book a great place to get Foreven too, even if only lightly done.
Those other sectors might need love, but Foreven needs it more in my opinion. The time for it to be the GM preserve might be done.
Yup. If it bothers you that there is an undefined location, you can set your campaign in any many sectors that have books and don't adjoin Foreven. It's easy!
And if you really want to play the published adventures as written, most of which are on the spinward side, well great! None of them go into Foreven. So the only reason to go into Foreven is because YOU choose to. Mongoose isn't leading you in there and leaving you hanging. Nothing that is being published for 5FW will involve action in Foreven. So that's just the GM choosing to bring that into play. Just choose not to do that.
Simultaneously arguing that the GM is authoritative enough to rip out existing material and tell their players to ignore the things they already know about the setting but the GM is too weaksauce to say "yeah, I don't have time to develop that so take a right at Mirriam, not a left" is specious.
Yes, undoing existing material is possible. But it is a lot more work than just doing the original homebrew. And it creates constant issues between what the players know about Charted Space and what they know about *this* Charted Space. Are they insurmountable? No. But they are real issues that affect real people. And they are the exact reason why Foreven was set up the way it was. And you know what is also not insurmountable? Adding whatever bit of Foreven you decided you personally need to this work Geir & Terry did.
Different people play different ways. There's no one true way to play the game. There's no one way that will please everyone. There are like 17 sectors that have full MgT2e treatment. THere's another 7 or 8 that have older versions still available. If you can't spare one sector for people who play differently than you, then too bad.
Anyway, good job Terry. Sorry the thread went off the rocks.
And if you really want to play the published adventures as written, most of which are on the spinward side, well great! None of them go into Foreven. So the only reason to go into Foreven is because YOU choose to. Mongoose isn't leading you in there and leaving you hanging. Nothing that is being published for 5FW will involve action in Foreven. So that's just the GM choosing to bring that into play. Just choose not to do that.
Simultaneously arguing that the GM is authoritative enough to rip out existing material and tell their players to ignore the things they already know about the setting but the GM is too weaksauce to say "yeah, I don't have time to develop that so take a right at Mirriam, not a left" is specious.
Yes, undoing existing material is possible. But it is a lot more work than just doing the original homebrew. And it creates constant issues between what the players know about Charted Space and what they know about *this* Charted Space. Are they insurmountable? No. But they are real issues that affect real people. And they are the exact reason why Foreven was set up the way it was. And you know what is also not insurmountable? Adding whatever bit of Foreven you decided you personally need to this work Geir & Terry did.
Different people play different ways. There's no one true way to play the game. There's no one way that will please everyone. There are like 17 sectors that have full MgT2e treatment. THere's another 7 or 8 that have older versions still available. If you can't spare one sector for people who play differently than you, then too bad.
Anyway, good job Terry. Sorry the thread went off the rocks.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Thanks. I kind of figured it would and was ready for it.
I'm sorry, but this is exactly the reason why Foreven needs to be there. So you can put your campaign on the edge of ALL THE COOL THINGS without all the cool things constantly being in conflict with your actual campaign.
Sure, there's probably going to be fighting in Foreven if the Imperium gets a serious pushback going without a peace. There might be commerce raiders going that deep. But that won't be in any of the published 5FW books. So any "need" is created by the individual GM who wants to do that stuff.
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
I accept your view as valid. I don't agree but I don't expect Mongoose to change things, either. Things will continue on as they are, most likely. I've done what I set out to do and walked the middle road in making these files. They won't satisfy everyone but are better than a hole in the universe.
