Fixing the Narn / G'Quan

[Foxmeister]

you are encroaching on full thrust territory there though. and more book keeping too, which is where acta is generally a quicker game than the aforementioned one.

Not really - a simple paragraph in the All Stop SA would do the trick:

A ship with the Lumbering trait cannot use the All Stop SA if it moved more than half its normal move in the previous turn

IMHO, that's no more "book keeping" than "All Stop and Pivot" requiring you to "All Stop" beforehand.

My preferred solution though would be for Lumbering to just go away full stop!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Foxmeister]

I have an M4 carbine.

Well, if you have an M4 Carbine, I'm not going to argue with you on the finer points of the name, since you are the one with the gun!

Regards,

Dave

 

[H]

I have an M4 carbine.

which fleet list is that in, i can't find it?

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The M'For Kar'Bine? It sounds Narn to me. Maybe it's a new ship for the Narn in P&P?

 

[Taran]

That's where you'll find your TD beam.

 

[Triggy]

I've seen several comments about the G'Sten/G'Karith and the Rongoth/Rothan being underpowered and this I would agree with. Actually in these cases, a simple bumping to Hull 6 would work nicely.

As for the other ships - I'm with katadder that the Bin'Tak is fine and therefore swapping e-mines with the G'Vrahn would make it (a little) too good. It's the G'Vrahn that needs the "nerf" not the Bin'Tak needing a boost.

 

[Foxmeister]

I've seen several comments about the G'Sten/G'Karith and the Rongoth/Rothan being underpowered and this I would agree with. Actually in these cases, a simple bumping to Hull 6 would work nicely.

Q. Would I take them if they were Hull 6?
A. No

Of those ships, only the G'Karith serves a useful purpose in the fleet and even then it is just as a specialist "anti-fighter" weapon. Hull 6 does nothing to change that and therefore, in my opinion, fails as a "solution".

As the e-mine G'Vrahn/Bin'Tak debate - would the swapping of the e-mines make the Bin'Tak a better ship than the G'Vrahn? In my opinion the answer to that is emphatically no, but it would serve to make the choice between the Bin'Tak and the G'Vrahn much more compelling since the two ships would serve completely different purposes. At present, there is really no reason to select the Bin'Tak over the G'Vrahn other than the fact that the Bin'Tak model is way better looking than the G'Vrahn.

Of course, what will probably happen is the G'Vrahn will take a further nerf and the G'Quan will still suck, and this whole exercise would be for naught anyway. :roll:

Regards,

Dave

 

[H]

you say you agree with Katadder that the bintak is fine, yet he is one of the biggest propoenents for the e-mine swap? no one argues that the bintak is weak, it;s a great ship, and nerfing the g'vrahn even more just isn't cricket.

the G'Karith. Fine as it is, it serves its purpose and it serves it well
the G'Sten, why? I don't get it
the same goes for the rongoth and rothan and hull 6 wouldn't make them worthy choices, there weapon loadout is the biggest issue, they bring nothing new or different to a narn fleet
I actually used the raid level rongoth and rothans regularly, I love the model, was so sad to see it dumped to skirmish. I may push for a house rule so i can use my torpedo one

 

[Triggy]

The reason I suggested these changes is twofold -

The Narn in ACtA are protrayed as tough ships, good firepower but little manoeuvrability or flexibility. Hull 6 would enhance this image (particularly at lower PLs where Hull 6 is more valuable than at higher PLs). However, I'm aware that it isn't the "perfect" solution - the reason I say it is that it is a "simple" solution without rebalancing every aspect of the ship. I don't think they'll be getting any change either way so it's pretty much a moot issue although at least they occasionally have a use and the Narn have plenty of other options.

 

[Foxmeister]

However, I'm aware that it isn't the "perfect" solution - the reason I say it is that it is a "simple" solution without rebalancing every aspect of the ship.

Still doesn't mean that there is *any* reason to take them, so you might as well just remove them from future reprints of the fleet book and forget about them. Personally I think it is ridiculous that you can completely re-stat an entire fleet and and introduce new ships in P&P, and not make the handful of changes that really need to be made to existing ships (e.g. Octurian etc).

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

you say you agree with Katadder that the bintak is fine, yet he is one of the biggest propoenents for the e-mine swap? no one argues that the bintak is weak, it;s a great ship, and nerfing the g'vrahn even more just isn't cricket.

yep i dont think the e-mine swap would take the bin'tak over the top. It would just make it a more attractive choice and actually give you a choice rather than always taking a g'vrahn.
be honest narn players - how many of you take bin'taks now? or do you all take g'vrahns?

 

[Greg Smith]

I take the G'Vrahn.

The emine swap wouldn't it alter my choice though - if the Bin'tak could get some of those masseed ranks of secondaries in range , it would be a more viable choice, but 5" movement and 8" range makes them pointless.

 

[stepan.razin]

Of those ships, only the G'Karith serves a useful purpose in the fleet and even then it is just as a specialist "anti-fighter" weapon.

Such hate for the GKarith?? You must have never run into a Gaim/Brakiri fleet. and by Brakiri I mean a brokados.

 

[Foxmeister]

Of those ships, only the G'Karith serves a useful purpose in the fleet and even then it is just as a specialist "anti-fighter" weapon.

Such hate for the GKarith?? You must have never run into a Gaim/Brakiri fleet. and by Brakiri I mean a brokados.

????

I don't hate the G'Karith - I said it was the only ship mentioned that actually served a useful purpose, which is as an anti-fighter weapon so if you are facing a fighter heavy fleet it is very useful. However, if you are not, it isn't.

Regards,

DAve

 

[Foxmeister]

be honest narn players - how many of you take bin'taks now? or do you all take g'vrahns?

I did, just once. Whilst it was ok, it wasn't as flexible as the G'Vrahn so I probably wouldn't bother again. Swapping the e-mines would change that situation and give me a compelling reason to pick the Bin'Tak.

Regards,

Dave

 

[Taran]

Honestly, I didn't agree with anyone, especially Narn players, about the G'Vrahn being a better choice than the Bin'Tak, even before the G'Vrahn nerf. Now I find the Bin'Tak an even better ship in comparison.
But maybe it's just the way I play the game.
As ISA I fear not the G'Vrahn. It gets a single shot with its E-mine, with fewer dice than the Bin'Tak has before I'm into its rear and side arcs and forever safe from beams or emines. And I'm also safe from the vast majority of the G'Vrahn's secondaries in those arcs. Leaves me LOTS freer to attack with Blue Stars or at close range with my WSs. The BT, not so much. Those secondaries overwhelm dodge too easily, forcing me to stay farther away, and the farther away I am, the easier it is for a Come About to suddenly bring the main guns into arc. And people never seem to take into account just how useful that rear Boresight Beam can really be. I've put the ones on my Omegas and Hyperions to good use.


Anyway, take the G'Vrahn all you want. Makes my games easier, and I do so like to win.

 

[mrambassador1]

I love rear beams, I would seriously take boresight front and rear beams over f arc beams anyday

 

[Foxmeister]

It gets a single shot with its E-mine, with fewer dice than the Bin'Tak has before I'm into its rear and side arcs and forever safe from beams or emines.

Except from those Dag'Kars that are protecting my G'Vrahns flanks and rear!

ISA play that way regardless of the opponent - it's all about getting on the flanks/rear of opponents which are F-arc/boresight heavy.

Against all comers, the G'Vrahn is a better bet, but there are some situations where a Bin'Tak is going to be more useful but only just. Whilst the rear bore beam occasionally, I'd generally take the 4AD TD F arc Mag gun because that is *always* useful.

Regards,

Dave

 

[H]

Honestly, I didn't agree with anyone, especially Narn players, about the G'Vrahn being a better choice than the Bin'Tak, even before the G'Vrahn nerf. Now I find the Bin'Tak an even better ship in comparison.
But maybe it's just the way I play the game.
As ISA I fear not the G'Vrahn. It gets a single shot with its E-mine, with fewer dice than the Bin'Tak has before I'm into its rear and side arcs and forever safe from beams or emines. And I'm also safe from the vast majority of the G'Vrahn's secondaries in those arcs. Leaves me LOTS freer to attack with Blue Stars or at close range with my WSs. The BT, not so much. Those secondaries overwhelm dodge too easily, forcing me to stay farther away, and the farther away I am, the easier it is for a Come About to suddenly bring the main guns into arc. And people never seem to take into account just how useful that rear Boresight Beam can really be. I've put the ones on my Omegas and Hyperions to good use.


Anyway, take the G'Vrahn all you want. Makes my games easier, and I do so like to win.

well, you know, if we compare everything to the cheesestar fleet, then most of them are a bit naff

In answer to Gregs question, I do take a Bin'Tak every now and again because it looks cool, and against say, Abbai, they HAVE to get in range to shoot it back, so it becomes useful, against fleets that have the range, then the G'Vrahn is supreme, same main beam (near enough), better mag gun, better e-mines, and it's lousy secondaries are not relevant.

 

[Foxmeister]

and it's lousy secondaries are not relevant.

But they are longer ranged - so even if they are lousy, at least some of those AD get rolled from time to time!

Regards,

Dave