Cimmerians and Bows

[Supplement Four]

We know that Cimmerians respect skill, and some Cimmerians are quite skilled with the hunting bow. But, it is a cultural taboo to use a bow in war. It's not honorable to attack your enemy from the relative safety distance provides, where you can't see your enemy's eyes.

How strong is this taboo among their culture?

If their life was in danger at the hands of bandit, would using a bow be justified at that moment? Or, would a true Cimmerian drop his hunting bow, even if it was the only weapon he had, and fight with it?

Maybe the warrior's own life is not enough to make him break custom, but would he use a bow to defend his faimly? His clan?

What about an event akin to Venarium where the entire country was being invaded? Do you think there were Cimmerian archers using their bows in that battle?

If a pack of Vanir come howling out of the mountains, dead set on leveling the Cimmerian village in front of them, killing the men, raping the women, and stealing the children to sell for slaves, and one of the Cimmerian men in the villiage is a good hunting archer.

Would he use his bow against these Vanir?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Of course they would. When it comes to survival, you use what is on hand to kill as many people as possible.

You know, this is your game. You can portray the Cimmerians as a full-fledged archer society if you like.

 

[Supplement Four]

You know, this is your game. You can portray the Cimmerians as a full-fledged archer society if you like.

That goes without saying. I'm just trying to get a grasp on how strong this taboo is against using the bow, or even a thrown spear, to kill an enemy. I'm trying to understand this so that I can GM my game better.

Would a Cimmerian give up his life the taboo is so strong, because he would rather die than make an action of the coward?

Or, is it like you say (which I tend to agree with), that, no matter the taboo, a Cimmerian will grab anything he can, including a bow, and use it rather than die and fail in battle?

 

[Clovenhoof]

I also think a Cimmerian would use a bow in battle if it proves necessary. Maybe they just don't like it normally because they can only procuce flimsy hunting bows with piddly damage. On the contrary, they will like the added bang of an Exotic bow.
And absolutely no problems with javelins or other thrown weapons. Btw Conan also throws an axe here and there in the stories.

 

[Spectator]

I've always assumed that their lack of love for the bow was more of a geographic as opposed to a cultural thing, meaning that the Cimmerians grew up in a geographic area that did not have a heck of a lot of trees (think rugged, yet barren scottish highlands) and the trees that did exist were not appropriate for making Bows (like the Yew tree). The trees that did exist (like some scrub pine trees) were more appropriate for javelins and spears.

I think very few societies actively try to deny themselves optimal weapons if they have access to these weapons.

 

[VincentDarlage]

I've always assumed that their lack of love for the bow was more of a geographic as opposed to a cultural thing, meaning that the Cimmerians grew up in a geographic area that did not have a heck of a lot of trees.

I don't see Cimmeria as not having a lot of trees. Look to REH's description of Cimmeria in his poem, "Cimmeria":

"I remember the dark woods, masking slopes of sombre hills..."

"Vista on vista marching, hills on hills, slope beyond slope, each dark with sullen trees..."

And, "It was a gloomy land that seemed to hold all winds and clouds and dreams that shun the sun, with bare boughs rattling in the lonesome winds, and the dark woodlands brooding over all..."

And, "The clouds that piled forever on the hills, the dimness of the everlasting woods."

It is a short poem of five stanzas, but he mentions the woods and trees four times.

I think Cimmeria is heavily wooded. Perhaps not the right kinds of trees to make good bows, but certainly Howard envisioned it as wooded.

 

[Spectator]

Thanks Vincent,
I guess I have the mental image from John Maddox Roberts' book Conan the Valorous, wherein he describes on of the clans utililizing peat moss for fire, bringing their wooden roof poles, and grazing their highland sheep and cattle in wide open mountain pasture.

 

[Supplement Four]

Thanks Vincent,
I guess I have the mental image from John Maddox Roberts' book Conan the Valorous, wherein he describes on of the clans utililizing peat moss for fire, bringing their wooden roof poles, and grazing their highland sheep and cattle in wide open mountain pasture.

I think the Hoath Plain is like that, where the Field of Chiefs is located (where the clans meet to talk business). And, some of theCimmerian clans are nomadic still.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Thanks Vincent,
I guess I have the mental image from John Maddox Roberts' book Conan the Valorous, wherein he describes on of the clans utililizing peat moss for fire, bringing their wooden roof poles, and grazing their highland sheep and cattle in wide open mountain pasture.

I am one of the few people who really didn't like that book. I didn't like how he described Cimmeria, and I didn't care for the weird interlude in the Border Kingdom with the story of the Bull that didn't have anything to do with the central plot (he explained once why he wrote it that way - the book was too short so the publishers asked him to lengthen it, so he wrote that interlude and stuck it in the middle - so I understand how that section came to pass, but I still don't care for it).

 

[Supplement Four]

I am one of the few people who really didn't like that book.

I'm about to re-read it, having the first go around some two decades ago. I remember liking the book but not as much as some of his others because of that interlude. It did feel tacked on and lonnngggg.

We'll see how it feels this time around.

The JMR book I always loved is Conan The Bold. Talk about flying in the face of what's been established before! There's no way Conan could have taken this journey at his young age without conflicting with every other timeline out there--that established for REH and by LSdC too.

But, damn, it's a good book. I love the part where the prediction is made about Conan's Atlantean blood.

I haven't read that one in twenty years either, so maybe I'll change my mind when I re-read it. But, I sure remember loving that book.

 

[Spectator]

I certainly understand the book is kinda wierd in its layout with the interlude.

Of the interlude in the Border Kingdom, I do love the proto-Germanic/ Nordic culture and the resemblance of the Riders of the Rohirrim imagery.

I love the sorceress Hathor-Ka, the scheming Thoth amon, and Jaganath (the fat Vindhyan sorceror call up beasts from the Cthulhu pantheon).


The portrayal of the proto Norse in their hall was very good as well.


The part I absolutely can't stand is the deus ex machina, actually deus in deus (since Crom animated the statue of himself), in the end.

I really like the story very much for the portrayal of the cultures and the imagery of them, that I truly like.

 

[Supplement Four]

I really like the story very much for the portrayal of the cultures and the imagery of them, that I truly like.

Well, I'm about to read that one again. It's the next book on my list.

Let's see how my taste of it changes from my first read-through 20 years ago.