B5ACTA Energy Mines vs Stealth

[bayruun]

I'm not clear on how Energy Mines break stealth. Was the change in P&P meant to reflect that they can break stealth like any other weapon system, or that they break stealth regardless of overcoming the target's stealth rating?

Maybe I'm not understanding how Energy Mines work?

 

[No. 1 Bear]

Emines pick a point in space to target not neccesarily the ship. As they dont target the ship no need to roll for stealth.

 

[bayruun]

Is stealth rolled per weapon system, or per attacker? The rules don't seem to be clear about that.

Also, my Minbari opponent claims that an Energy Mine making attacks on a ship declares its attacks on those ships, and thus can be countered by stealth.

 

[Target]

Stealth is rolled per ship. You can split your fire over multiple stealthed ships to give you more rolls.
E mines don't target ships as but an area so no stealth roll.
E mines make it possible to do friendly fire.
It's probably covered in the rulemaster forum with better explanations.

 

[H]

Is stealth rolled per weapon system, or per attacker? The rules don't seem to be clear about that.

Also, my Minbari opponent claims that an Energy Mine making attacks on a ship declares its attacks on those ships, and thus can be countered by stealth.

stealth is rolled per ship, not per weapon. once a G'Quan can see a minbari with one weapon, it can see them with all, until the next turn. it;s one roll, all or nothign kind of thing before you fire.

Energy mines do not target ships, hence they do not need to pass a stealth check, they are targetted at an area of space, and hit everything in that area, stealth and dodge do not work against e-mines. nor do interceptors, what does work is geg and shields.

 

[Mean Mutton]

Is stealth rolled per weapon system, or per attacker? The rules don't seem to be clear about that.

Also, my Minbari opponent claims that an Energy Mine making attacks on a ship declares its attacks on those ships, and thus can be countered by stealth.

stealth is rolled per ship, not per weapon. once a G'Quan can see a minbari with one weapon, it can see them with all, until the next turn. it;s one roll, all or nothign kind of thing before you fire.

Energy mines do not target ships, hence they do not need to pass a stealth check, they are targetted at an area of space, and hit everything in that area, stealth and dodge do not work against e-mines. nor do interceptors, what does work is geg and shields.

What also works: Fighters in base contact, ramming, breeching pods. You want to see the Minbari really upset? Try playing the Gaim against them.

 

[Burger]

You want to see the Minbari really upset? Try playing the Gaim against them.

Ah but what about the Web Of Death? :lol:

 

[Mean Mutton]

You want to see the Minbari really upset? Try playing the Gaim against them.

Ah but what about the Web Of Death? :lol:

If they're close enough for Web of Death, they're close enough to slam all their ships at the same time. You can't just gang up on one ship -- you have to mass-attack all their ships at once.

 

[AdrianH]

Another fun thing to do to Minbari is Launch Breaching Pods and Shuttles, especially if one of their ships spends too long lurking in an asteroid field.

Another fun thing to do with e-mines is ruin dogfights. Your Frazis have just been bounced by Sentris. You're not allowed to fire weapons at the Sentris, but nothing stops you from putting an e-mine on a point of space which just happens to be near the dogfight. OK, you'll fry your own fighters at the same time, but the dogfight has been rolled and they're all dead anyway. Or, if there are one or two survivors, you place the e-mine such that they're just outside the 3" blast radius. :twisted:

 

[bayruun]

I managed to board a Neshetan. He didn't like that.

Are there any tips for general Narn tactics? I figured it'd be mostly sitting back and laser/emine my targets.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

tactics all depend on who your playing and what fleet you have. Best thing is to post a fleet you take and lets us make it better if its possible.

 

[Democratus]

Another fun thing to do with e-mines is ruin dogfights. Your Frazis have just been bounced by Sentris. You're not allowed to fire weapons at the Sentris, but nothing stops you from putting an e-mine on a point of space which just happens to be near the dogfight.

This would seem to be against the rules. The Fighter rules prohibit firing into a dogfight that contains your own fighters. Unlike the standard rules which merely prohibit targeting a friendly vessel (thus allowing emines to be used against your own ships) - the figher rules state that dogfights containing friendly fighters "may not be fired upon".

Blasting figters with an emine certainly seems like "firing upon" them.

 

[bayruun]

What I've got left:

G'Quanth, Crew 6

G'Quan, Crew 4, 5 damage, 21 crew missing
+2 Fore Ion Cannons, HLC upgraded to Fore

G'Quan, Crew 4, 16 crew missing
Long Range HLC

G'Quan, Crew 4, messed up (sent back to homeworld)

G'Quan, Crew 3, 4 damage, 10 crew missing

Var'Nic, Crew 4, 4 damage, 14 crew missing

G'Karith, Crew 4, 8 damage, 19 crew missing

3x Ka'Toc, Crew 4

Sho'Kov, Crew 3

Sho'Kov, Crew 6

In short, most of my fleet is scratched up, but functional. I have yet to win a battle due to poor choices and tactics.

There are five players: myself as Narn, Earth/ISA, Earth/Psicorps, Minbari, and Centauri. The Minbari are vastly more powerful than the other players in terms of material. Earth/Psicorps holds the most territory.

 

[lastbesthope]

Another fun thing to do with e-mines is ruin dogfights. Your Frazis have just been bounced by Sentris. You're not allowed to fire weapons at the Sentris, but nothing stops you from putting an e-mine on a point of space which just happens to be near the dogfight.

This would seem to be against the rules. The Fighter rules prohibit firing into a dogfight that contains your own fighters. Unlike the standard rules which merely prohibit targeting a friendly vessel (thus allowing emines to be used against your own ships) - the figher rules state that dogfights containing friendly fighters "may not be fired upon".

Blasting figters with an emine certainly seems like "firing upon" them.

E-mines are the exeption

LBH

 

[Democratus]

E-mines are the exeption

LBH

Is that stated in the rules somewhere?

 

[lastbesthope]

Not sure, but it was ruled that way so often at Mongoose tournaments it might as well be.

The thing to remember is E-mines are an area effect weapon but are fired at a point in space. So you're not firing at the dogfight or the stealthed ship but they are in the area affected by the weapon.

LBH

 

[H]

Another fun thing to do with e-mines is ruin dogfights. Your Frazis have just been bounced by Sentris. You're not allowed to fire weapons at the Sentris, but nothing stops you from putting an e-mine on a point of space which just happens to be near the dogfight.

This would seem to be against the rules. The Fighter rules prohibit firing into a dogfight that contains your own fighters. Unlike the standard rules which merely prohibit targeting a friendly vessel (thus allowing emines to be used against your own ships) - the figher rules state that dogfights containing friendly fighters "may not be fired upon".

Blasting figters with an emine certainly seems like "firing upon" them.

well, as stated, the e-mine does not fire upon anything apart from a bit of space, the fighters just have the misfortune to be in the blast. if you don't target the fighter, you are not firing upon them, nice eh

 

[Democratus]

Blasting figters with an emine certainly seems like "firing upon" them.

well, as stated, the e-mine does not fire upon anything apart from a bit of space, the fighters just have the misfortune to be in the blast. if you don't target the fighter, you are not firing upon them, nice eh

You may not be targeting the fighters with an e-mine. But you certainly are firing upon them. As stated in Powers & Principalities - hitting a vessel with the blast of an e-mine "will count as a successful attack." (page 6).

 

[Mean Mutton]

Blasting figters with an emine certainly seems like "firing upon" them.

well, as stated, the e-mine does not fire upon anything apart from a bit of space, the fighters just have the misfortune to be in the blast. if you don't target the fighter, you are not firing upon them, nice eh

You may not be targeting the fighters with an e-mine. But you certainly are firing upon them. As stated in Powers & Principalities - hitting a vessel with the blast of an e-mine "will count as a successful attack." (page 6).

That statement is only in reference to stealth.

 

[Democratus]

well, as stated, the e-mine does not fire upon anything apart from a bit of space, the fighters just have the misfortune to be in the blast. if you don't target the fighter, you are not firing upon them, nice eh

You may not be targeting the fighters with an e-mine. But you certainly are firing upon them. As stated in Powers & Principalities - hitting a vessel with the blast of an e-mine "will count as a successful attack." (page 6).

That statement is only in reference to stealth.

That would be true if the sentence ended with the phrase, "count as a successful attack for the purposes of stealth". But it doesn't. It merely states that any hit from an e-mine "counts as a successful attack." The consequence of this rule is that it also helps to reduce stealth.

Limiting it to stealth because of where this sentence is located would also limit this abilty to only Minbari ships - which we know isn't the case thanks to the clarification in the FAQ.