Zhodani Naval Doctrine

[Vormaerin]

It's likely most (interstellar) ministries will have a department that is tasked with intelligence gathering, whether judiciary, foreign relations, or whatever.

Chances are there does exist a Centralized Imperial Intelligence Agency, and does cultivate intelligence assets outside the Imperium.

yup and it only takes a year for their reports to reach the central office.

 

[ottarrus]

Well, this is a wholly separate discussion anyway.
My point remains that no matter which Imperial intelligence agency operates in the Consulate, those agents are gonna have a Hell of a time trying to get information on top-tier information like the Empress Wave or the jump-off date for the 5th FW.
Anybody with access to enough code word level information to be able to assemble a definitive picture is AT LEAST an Intendant if not a Noble. That means they all have Shields.
And good luck trying that Mission: Implausible nonsense.

 

[Sigtrygg]

From TNE we learn that Norris had his own intelligence agency, I wonder how many subsector dukes do this?

(IMTU - all of them do, so they can keep tabs on their rival subsector dukes, duplicitous megacorps, and upstart commoners))

 

[Condottiere]

Cheaper agents.

 

[Vormaerin]

Zhodani are still humans. They'll do all the dumb things humans do. Obviously, if the Imperium doesn't have its own psi agents, it'll only be able to infiltrate as proles and need some techno solution to telepathic scanning.

 

[Condottiere]

Is it possible, that the Zhodani are Romulans?

 

[MasterGwydion]

Zhodani are still humans. They'll do all the dumb things humans do. Obviously, if the Imperium doesn't have its own psi agents, it'll only be able to infiltrate as proles and need some techno solution to telepathic scanning.

Any Zhodani notices a Prole and they are Shielded will quickly be set on by the mind police.

 

[ottarrus]

Zhodani are still humans. They'll do all the dumb things humans do. Obviously, if the Imperium doesn't have its own psi agents, it'll only be able to infiltrate as proles and need some techno solution to telepathic scanning.

The Zhodani are still humans and they have, to Imperials, an incredible sense of naivete...
It's entirely possible that a prole might look an agent dead in the eye and say, "I'm sorry. I have a job with a security clearance. You'll understand that I can't get into that with you."
In the Imperium, very few people would admit they a] have a job needing a security clearance and b] imply by their answer that they might know something. To an Imperial this seems like a fishing expedition... the mark is wondering how much you'll offer. But the prole is dead serious and said exactly what he meant and any further probing by the Imperial has a 1000% chance of meeting the Tavrchedle in the next 90 minutes or so.

 

[Vormaerin]

Sure, but that's what training is for? Any kind of secret agent has to be trained in the local culture or they will fail in that way.

 

[ottarrus]

Sure, but that's what training is for? Any kind of secret agent has to be trained in the local culture or they will fail in that way.

Sure. But even trained agents screw up.

 

[Condottiere]

THE ZH0DAN1

 

[collins355]

Or forget about eh FFW grand strategy of the Zhodani grand fleet engaging in grand battles, you assemble the entire fleet and push to Rhylanor, take it and hold it until you have done what you came to do, then withdraw. A few diversionary raids by the Vargr, Sword Worlds, and dedicated raiding squadrons would disguise the offensive long enough .

I have tried that in CT FFW boardgame. It is still a long slog - although the lack of fog of war in that game means the Impie player can see exactly what you're doing and send all his forces to stop your single thrust (think Market-Garden!).

 

[Sigtrygg]

It take him four turns to change the orders he has given his fleets.

Make the target world random (not Rhylanor) , the Zhodani know what they are after, let's see the Imperial forces intercept...

 

[Geir]

Aim for Mora and hang a hard left. Don't know what's really at Gerome but it looks like a good pivot point.

 

[Vormaerin]

Sure. But even trained agents screw up.

Yes, that's always true. In some operations, the Zhos will screw up, in others the Imperials will. If you want to make the Zhos some kind of impregnable counter espionage fortress, you can. But there's no reason why that should be true. They are human and their society has its flaws and malcontents. The Tvarchedl have some advantages over other secret police, but they aren't omniscient.

 

[ottarrus]

Yes, that's always true. In some operations, the Zhos will screw up, in others the Imperials will. If you want to make the Zhos some kind of impregnable counter espionage fortress, you can. But there's no reason why that should be true. They are human and their society has its flaws and malcontents. The Tvarchedl have some advantages over other secret police, but they aren't omniscient.

I'm not trying to make them out to be impregnable, but I am trying to realistically portray the scale of the problem.
It is not unreasonable to say that the Consulate has some of the best sensitive information control in Charted Space. There is a term in the intelligence business about the motive of most intelligence leaks: MICE, or Money, Ideology, Coercion, and Ego. Let's look at that as it applies to Zho society.
- Money: The Zhodani have fewer money motives than Imperial society; they don't gamble as much and excessive gambling gets you a visit from the Tavrchedle
- Ideology: This might be the best access for an agent to a vulnerable Zho... wherever there is a political or philosophical disagreement with current policy, you have a small chance at baiting a hook. However, most Zho intelligence workers are more patriotic than most Imperials.
- Coercion: Again, a good entrepot. But that's IF you can find and threaten that vulnerable chink in an intelligence worker's armor. And that is harder to do in a society that regularly monitors the mental health of such workers.
- Ego: Probably the WORST motive to try and attempt with a target Zhodani intel worker, but the most devastating if it works out; very much a high risk-high reward strategy

 

[collins355]

It take him four turns to change the orders he has given his fleets.

Make the target world random (not Rhylanor) , the Zhodani know what they are after, let's see the Imperial forces intercept...

Hmm, only if he has a woeful admiral. Somewhere, somehow the critique that it takes you 4 turns to change anything in 5FW took hold, but in fact most admirals can react quicker than that (and Norris, of course, can spin on a dime).

 

[G'Naakbusters]

- Ideology: This might be the best access for an agent to a vulnerable Zho... wherever there is a political or philosophical disagreement with current policy, you have a small chance at baiting a hook.

Others agree with you on this. It was mentioned in GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 1 that religion is the most common motivation for defection from the Consulate and that both the Tavrchedl' and the Imperium are well aware of it. Converting a Zhodani to a religion other than Morality's Path encourages efforts to avoid re-education and so gives outsiders an "in".

 

[ottarrus]

BTW, I want to point out that while the average prole in Zhodani society on gets telepathically scanned every now and again, and usually for powerful emotions, you can bet the rent money that proles in sensitive positions are scanned regularly and often. By 'sensitive positions' I mean the worker-bees that work in secure facilities or have access to restricted information, not every prole in government work.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Hmm, only if he has a woeful admiral. Somewhere, somehow the critique that it takes you 4 turns to change anything in 5FW took hold, but in fact most admirals can react quicker than that (and Norris, of course, can spin on a dime).

Imperial fleets have a default plotting factor of 5, seven of the fourteen admirals have a plotting factor of 4.