What happened to the Narn???????

[H]

What Locutus said about the Bin'Taks mine is what I feel about ALL one shot e-mines. There a bonus, look on any damage they do as a gift.

The Bin'Tak (and any other large mine carrying ship) probably do have more than 1 e-mine, they just don't have the loading/firing facilities to reload during combat. Narn e-mines were developed from fighters packed full of high explosives so are going to be hure compared to other weapons ammunition.

The T'Rann does not need to be made better. It is a comedy ship put in the system because otherwise us Narn players would complain that they didn't have a carrier. Use it in campaigns so you have more fighter wings and send it home for refills. It even does a half decent job as a combat carrier due to high damage. I would like to see more T'Loth varients (see my conversion soon!)

The Dag'Kar probably should be tougher than it's stats show if it wasn't carrying several thousand megatonns worth of high explosives. One lucky hit would detonate its payload destroying the ship. I prefer the basic 'make it fragile' rules to extensive 'new crit table' special rules.

Tom

their is a T'lloth variant in mine and morgoths 1st ed supplement Dawn of Retribution, and their is another supplement due from elsewhere which contains 2 more t'loth variants.

 

[Morgoth]

The T'Loth varient we designed was the T'Voth Command cruiser. It had more damage and crew, had Command +1, More pulse cannons and a larger Heavy Plasma Cannon, but it was a priority higher. I would be intrested in seeing these two other varients. Any ideas on what they are?

 

[Ripple]

To Emperorpenquin...

The headlights may actually be e-mines but this can hardly be a major weapon for them as we don't see them fired in the majority of confrontations, Even though most G'Quans we see are fighting for their lives in desperate circumstances.

Of course the Narn also don't believe in using cover in a firefight so maybe they just believe it is more honorable to not fight with all advantages.

Ripple

 

[Celisasu]

It's due to being agrarian people. Sure they have lasers and PPCs and whatnot. It's just that they've been fighting with spears for so long that they still forget about the whole cover and fighting from long range > running into the enemies gunline thing.

 

[Da Boss]

What Locutus said about the Bin'Taks mine is what I feel about ALL one shot e-mines. There a bonus, look on any damage they do as a gift.

The Bin'Tak (and any other large mine carrying ship) probably do have more than 1 e-mine, they just don't have the loading/firing facilities to reload during combat. Narn e-mines were developed from fighters packed full of high explosives so are going to be hure compared to other weapons ammunition.

The T'Rann does not need to be made better. It is a comedy ship put in the system because otherwise us Narn players would complain that they didn't have a carrier. Use it in campaigns so you have more fighter wings and send it home for refills. It even does a half decent job as a combat carrier due to high damage. I would like to see more T'Loth varients (see my conversion soon!)

The Dag'Kar probably should be tougher than it's stats show if it wasn't carrying several thousand megatonns worth of high explosives. One lucky hit would detonate its payload destroying the ship. I prefer the basic 'make it fragile' rules to extensive 'new crit table' special rules.

Tom

their is a T'lloth variant in mine and morgoths 1st ed supplement Dawn of Retribution, and their is another supplement due from elsewhere which contains 2 more t'loth variants.

thanks for the plug Mine has (at present) a Shadow / T'loth experiment, an early Narn Explorer ship (forunner of the T'loth) and a torpedo fighter to deal with pesky ships packing antifighter.

 

[Triggy]

What Locutus said about the Bin'Tak's mine is what I feel about ALL one shot e-mines. They're a bonus, look on any damage they do as a gift.

Tom

At least in game terms, Narn e-mines are integral to their firepower. Definitely more than a gift/bonus.

 

[greenboy]

If your really wanted to make EMines accurate...

In RL, the power of an sort of explosion wavefront is inversely poportional to its diameter. Meaning the farther out it goes, it loses power by a 1:4 ratio (1 unit farther away equate to something like 75% percent los of power if you add another unit to it.)

The best way to reflect this ingame would be to make the Emine template vary in its damage the farther out from the point of detonation. A simple way:

Point to 1", SAP, TD
1" to 2" AP DD
2" to 3" normal.

This would wildly throw off the current AD stats for Emine ships. The template would retain its effectiveness against light skirmish and raid ships, but in order to kill heavily armored ships Emines would have to be much more specifically targeted at them than the current rules.

Thoughts?

It would be simpler just to have one line for a direct hit that is rolled against the target ship and then a sat line rolled against every one in the area of effect this would encourage fireing the weapon at a ship rather than in to an are of space

 

[inq101]

What Locutus said about the Bin'Tak's mine is what I feel about ALL one shot e-mines. They're a bonus, look on any damage they do as a gift.

Tom

At least in game terms, Narn e-mines are integral to their firepower. Definitely more than a gift/bonus.

For the Dag'Kar and others with slow loading mines defiantly. Far less so for one shot mines.

 

[katadder]

To Emperorpenquin...

The headlights may actually be e-mines but this can hardly be a major weapon for them as we don't see them fired in the majority of confrontations, Even though most G'Quans we see are fighting for their lives in desperate circumstances.

Of course the Narn also don't believe in using cover in a firefight so maybe they just believe it is more honorable to not fight with all advantages.

Ripple

thats because most other confrontations they are too close. consider the size of the blast when they do fire them at the shadows, now try hitting the secundus that comes to B5 without hitting B5. or try using them at corianna and not hit your allies.

 

[Tzarevitch]

I think people may be using the G'Quan wrong. It's drawbacks (lumbering, low speed, short range secondaries) make it an excellently big ship killer.

It has short range so needs to get close, but it's low maneuverability makes this tough against more agile (smaller) ships.
So target big ships.
They tend to be slower, often have lumbering and rarely more than 1 turn. You can normally predict where it will be in 3 turns, let alone next turn. In a knife fight I'd back a G'Quan against almost every other ship out there.

I agree it is slightly weaker than many other battle PL ships as a general purpose ship, so play to your strength, not the enemies.

Tom

I agree, the G'Quan is supposed to be a big-ship killer but it just can't do that with 4D of beam. The e-mine is a laugher against a large ship as it is 1-shot and can't crit. It'll do about 3 points of damage to a big hull 6 ship and nothing ever again.

I have no real problem with most Narn ships having 1-shot e-mines (although I agree the Bin'Tak should be able to reload), the G'Quan depends TOO much on a 1-shot system that really doesn't hit that hard against the very ships it is designed to fight. Increase the laser, decrease the e-mine or secondaries if necessary (my vote is on the secondaries). That would make a worthy G'Quan.

The problem is the G'Quan as it stands now is a contradiction. It has long range weapons but its actual firepower at that long range is rather limited. This tends to turn it into a short-range gunboat but without decent weapon range or speed to actually get those weapons to work. The G'Lan is a better ship in almost every way. In any round the G'Quan does not fire its e-mine the G'Tal is actually a better ship. Take the G'Tal, rip its flag facilities and some armor off and throw it at the enemy for a round and you have basically the same ship as a G'Quan which has fired its e-mines. :?

Other than that I love the new Narn fleet, but it is a shame their weakest link is their iconic ship.

Tzarevitch

 

[Tzarevitch]

The T'Loth varient we designed was the T'Voth Command cruiser. It had more damage and crew, had Command +1, More pulse cannons and a larger Heavy Plasma Cannon, but it was a priority higher. I would be intrested in seeing these two other varients. Any ideas on what they are?

Excellent. The fluff text mentions such a ship. I would love to see it published. (And the Tarza please )

 

[emperorpenguin]

To Emperorpenquin...

The headlights may actually be e-mines but this can hardly be a major weapon for them as we don't see them fired in the majority of confrontations, Even though most G'Quans we see are fighting for their lives in desperate circumstances.

Of course the Narn also don't believe in using cover in a firefight so maybe they just believe it is more honorable to not fight with all advantages.

Ripple

but also consider the number of times we see G'Quans in battle not using their pulse weapons or launching fighters.....

We see many instances of Vorchans/Demos just firing their ion cannons, only one instance of torpedoes and two of plasma accelerators

We rarely see Omegas firing a mix of pulse and beam

the moral is you can't get too carried away with the weapon fire on screen

 

[Locutus9956]

the moral is you can't get too carried away with the weapon fire on screen

...says the chief proponent for Omegas having mini-beams and Redoing the whole Centauri fleet to Ion Cannons (though granted I do much prefer the new Centauri I STILL dont like the slow loading minbeam omegas, on screen evidence be damned )

 

[Morgoth]

here are some of my ideas for some new ships to compliment the fleet, including a new version of the T'Voth for 2nd edition:

T'Voth Command Cruiser : T'Loth Variant
Battle priority
Speed: 8
Damage: 85/17
Crew: 102/25
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 5
Troops: 5
Special: Jump Point, Shuttles 2,Command +1, Lumbering,2 Frazi Flights

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Plasma Cannon 20 F 8 AP, DD
Ion Torpedeos 30 F 2 SAP, Precise,
Pulse Cannon 8 F 12
Pulse Cannon 8 A 12
Pulse Cannon 8 P 14
Pulse Cannon 8 S 14


Tarza Torpedeo Fighter - Gorith Varient - 5 flights per wing
Speed: 9
SM
Hull: 4
Special: Fighter, Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Dogfight +0
Weapon Range Arc AD
Plasma Bolters 2 T 1
Ion Torpedeos 4 T 2 AP

D'Tarn Escort Gunboat
Patrol priority
Speed: 12
Damage: 16/4
Crew: 18/4
Turns: 2/45
Hull: 4
Troops: 1
Special: Agile, Anti-Fighter-2, Escort

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Pulse Cannon 8 F 3
Light Pulse Cannon 6 T 6


T'Laca Light Carrier
Skirmish Priority
Speed: 10
Damage: 24/5
Crew: 28/6
Turns: 1/45
Hull: 5
Troops: 1
Special: Anti-Fighter-2, Anti-Fighter 2, 4 Frazi Flights

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Light Ion Cannon 8 F 4 Twin-Link
Pulse Cannon 8 A 4
Pulse Cannon 8 P 4
Pulse Cannon 8 S 4

What are you thoughts on them people??

 

[Da Boss]

They seem cool - but will have a proper look

Two of My supplements Narn additions (concepts by Heiko Wisper)

To’Reth Fighter Bomber Flight (Frazi Variant) Patrol (2 flights per Wing)
A wartime development of the robust Frazi, the To’Reth is a step forward in Narn fighter craft, its engines having been tailored to provide superior manoeuvrability and survivability in dogfights. Its array of weapons include an under slung ion torpedo mount which can prove a nasty shock to unwary Centauri and Drazi who think its just another Frazi.

Speed: 8 Turn: SM Hull: 5 Damage: – Crew: –
Troops: - Dogfight: +2 Craft: –
Special Rules: Atmospheric, Dodge 3+, Fighter, In Service: 2260+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Particle Gun 2 T 4 —
Light Ion Torpedo 4 T 1 AP, Precise

T'Shon Early Explorer (T'Loth forerunner) Raid
The aftermath of the liberation from the Centauri was a time of expansion and desperate Search for resources, ironically often at the expense of fellow sufferers of Centauri rule or primitives that resembled the Narn of old.
The T’Shon was both a survey ship, a diplomatic envoy and where necessary an assault ship.

Speed: 4 Turn: 1/45o Hull: 5
Damage: 65/12 Crew: 80/20 Troops: 12
Craft: 2 Gorith flights,
Special Rules: Jump Engine, Command +1, Lumbering, Scout, Shuttles 4
In Service: 2230+

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Energy Mine 20 F 2 AP, Double Damage, Energy Mine, Slow Loading,
Light Pulse Cannon 8 F 10
Light Pulse Cannon 8 P 10
Light Pulse Cannon 8 S 10
Light Pulse Cannon 8 A 10

 

[Tzarevitch]

As I recall, one of the last Babcom magazines from the old Agents of Gaming had a pretty cool looking experimental Narn fighter-torpedo bomber. I had it downloaded to my computer once, but that was 2 computers ago and I can't seem to find it on the web now. Anyone have a link to it or know where to find it?

Tzarevitch

 

[Ripple]

Not to get too carried away with on screen evidence, but...

Your right we don't see them using their pulse much...so why so much?

We don't see them launching fighters, and the fluff on the ship at least admits the fighters are shoe-horned in and issue laden. But in the show we don't see many ships 'launching' fighters. They just seem to be around.

I'm just saying that when the war leader gives he call to launch the energy mines and we only see two fired out of the whole stack of G'Quan hulls it indicates this is not the centerpiece weapon of the ship.

As too the Omega, I've never been a big fan of splitting off a 'pulse omega' from the base hull. I thought the EA mixed the weapons and used the one they thought appropriate to the fight. So what you see in the show are Omegas, with individual captains choosing to allocate power to the weapon they think is most appropriate. Explains the weapons we see better as all the Omegas have the same barrels showing, just only some are used in each fight.

Anyway, like I said before, far as I can tell the G'Quan exists for its lasers. Not the tons of very short range pulse we see on the ship in the game or the rarely used e-mine. Just wished the game reflected the show better instead of being stuck like it is. We did a good thing with the Centauri, we can do it again. Heck and I'm a defender of being somewhat true to the old AoG product, especially given they developed almost all the fleets, but not when we have direct evidence otherwise.

Ripple

 

[emperorpenguin]

the moral is you can't get too carried away with the weapon fire on screen

...says the chief proponent for Omegas having mini-beams and Redoing the whole Centauri fleet to Ion Cannons (though granted I do much prefer the new Centauri I STILL dont like the slow loading minbeam omegas, on screen evidence be damned )

I knew someone would mention that!

What I mean is counting the appearances (or not) of a weapon and apparent ranges/rates of fire is going too far IMHO

 

[emperorpenguin]

As too the Omega, I've never been a big fan of splitting off a 'pulse omega' from the base hull. I thought the EA mixed the weapons and used the one they thought appropriate to the fight. So what you see in the show are Omegas, with individual captains choosing to allocate power to the weapon they think is most appropriate. Explains the weapons we see better as all the Omegas have the same barrels showing, just only some are used in each fight.
Ripple

I happen to completely agree with you on this and I do agree that the G'Quan should have the same beam power as the Omega, which itself IMHO should have equal beam power front and aft.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Here's the Narn fighter I was talking about. The Toreth.

http://www.tesarta.com/b5wars/

Under the "Narn: section. You can find the PDF for it under the second entry entitled "Babcom Added [4/20/07]"


Da Boss, was that the fighter your Toreth is based on?

Tzarevitch