Weak weapons, and Hull 6 ships

[B5freak]

Davesaint wrote:

The statement was made to make the weak weapons function similar to the 7+ hit in 40k.

Actually, that was only one suggestion, and my own statements were that we should look at imposing a -1 to the Damage Roll, not the "7+" methodology.

 

[Ripple]

The '7+ rule' has some merit but I think the -1 damage roll is too dramatic a change from the current rule set. A core concept in the current rule set is every AD has a chance to be THE AD that stops you ship or shuts down its fire. You can safely ignore nothing.

Now the Vorlon/Shadows break this pattern, but they are the only ones.

Something to consider is that SAP has a similar 'lack of effect' against hulls that are 4 or less. Does this mean we should allow them a re-roll on 1's to hit anyway as they should not have an equal effect against hull 2 through 4?

Ripple

 

[Commador Q]

personally i'd say thye best solution is to remove the "a six always hits rule" so week weapons just can't do noticable damage against a hull 6 ship.

this would also allow ships with hull values of 7 or 8 to exist (whether or not that's a good thing is debatable).

 

[Chernobyl]

Ripple, I'm a little confused about your statement on SAP...could you explain this point again?

 

[fluffy05]

New player(s) question

I thought the Weak Trait meant you could never score a critical?

and get Bulkhead hits on 1's & 2's on the damage table.

otherwise how can a Weak weapon even hit a Hull 6 ship?

 

[Reaverman]

New player(s) question

I thought the Weak Trait meant you could never score a critical?

and get Bulkhead hits on 1's & 2's on the damage table.

otherwise how can a Weak weapon even hit a Hull 6 ship?

No, weak weapons effect the Hull Value not the Damage roll. E-Mines used to get a -1 to damage rolls, not they dont (but they cant score crits)

 

[Reborn]

Like a .22 caliber rifle trying to damage a tank.


Well a GW Bolt Gun could do damage a GW tank on a roll of 6.... Bring back Blood Bowl

But Bolt Guns were pretty savage - I mean they were rocket propelled shells basically weren't they?

About Weak weapons - I think they should have a -1 on the damage table against hull 6 ships.

 

[Reaverman]

Like a .22 caliber rifle trying to damage a tank.


Well a GW Bolt Gun could do damage a GW tank on a roll of 6.... Bring back Blood Bowl

But Bolt Guns were pretty savage - I mean they were rocket propelled shells basically weren't they?

About Weak weapons - I think they should have a -1 on the damage table against hull 6 ships.

Bolter shells were also 20mm rounds, or there abouts. The GW paint pots, are meant to be based on them.

As for -1 to the damage roll, that would mean they dont get to crit, and a lot of fleets are going to be screwed by that.

 

[katadder]

Davesaint wrote:

The statement was made to make the weak weapons function similar to the 7+ hit in 40k.

Actually, that was only one suggestion, and my own statements were that we should look at imposing a -1 to the Damage Roll, not the "7+" methodology.

there is no 7+ roll in 40k anymore. this was an ancient ruling from back when GW were actually your friendly local games store and gaming meant more than money. the 7+ rule has also made appearances in systems outside GW too.

 

[lastbesthope]

Something to remember, when rolling against Hull scores, a 6 is always a hit. This gives us the fact that a Weak weapon has the same chance against Hull 5 as Hull 6.

However, there is a similar rule that a roll of a 1 is always a miss.

Now this means that an AP weapon has the same chance against Hull 2 as anyone else (I can't think of a Hull 2 ship/aux craft though).

But also, Super AP weapons get the same chance against Hull 3 as Hull 4, because a 1 on a Super AP roll won't hit the Hull 3 (Nials have Hull 3, there may be others). So Super AP weapons, need a 2 or more to hit Hull 3 or 4.

LBH

 

[Ripple]

Was going to clarify the SAP thing for Chern but LBH covered it.

Ripple

 

[lastbesthope]

I missed that you'd brought it up Ripple, my bad.

Got lost in all that 7+ discussion as I skimmed the thread.

LBH

 

[fluffy05]

Thanks for clearing that up for us LBH :wink:

 

[CodeofArms]

The 7+ rule still applies in Warhammer, just not 40K IIRC.

As for Weak weapons my group and I have played that they bulkhead on a 1-2 and have -1 to Critical Damage rolls (IE. They can't score 6's on criticals)

 

[Reaverman]

The 7+ rule still applies in Warhammer, just not 40K IIRC.

As for Weak weapons my group and I have played that they bulkhead on a 1-2 and have -1 to Critical Damage rolls (IE. They can't score 6's on criticals)

Thats a bit steep mate, I am talking about Hull 6. What you are saying, is that weak weapons get shafted at all levels of Hulll

 

[CodeofArms]

Thats a bit steep mate, I am talking about Hull 6. What you are saying, is that weak weapons get shafted at all levels of Hulll

Yeah, its a little heavy, at the moment we are playing with the critical hit table. I game with alot of players who are hardline on what constitutes a 'weak' trait; you should hear the arguments they come up with so its a case of smile and nod. I think somewhere on the net somebody wrote a load of guesstimated energy outputs of each weapon system; so many figures and quotations come my way i just put the headphones in and roll with what the rules are.

As for weak weapons i don't mind -1 on criticals regardless of hull; both can be very punishing, especially seeing as Narn are one of my trademark fleets. Note that this is not the attack roll. Thats done normally (A 5 hits hull 5 etc etc). It's the damage roll.

 

[Kosh127]

Weak can damage a hull six sip but think of the power required. weak should not be able to cause crits. on hull 6 ships.

 

[tneva82]

Hey its a Narn player who suggested it, I'm just pointing out a flaw in the rules. If every point on the dice is incrementally halved, as you go up the Hull values. Then a weak weapon, stops being weak after hull 5.

1) every point on dice is not incrementaly halved(where's halving in 50%->33%?)
2) people complain hull 6 is too important and here's something where hull 6 isn't that usefull and other people complain about that. Funny

 

[Celisasu]

Weak is fine the way it is. Just leave it alone.

 

[voodoomachine]

Weak is fine the way it is. Just leave it alone.

Although I think open discussion and free exchange of ideas is important, nah, invaluable and critical to an open and democratic system, in this case I find my response to be easy, short, perhaps even terse in its berevity:

I agree with Celisasu.