You do realize that you can move much greater mass with the same amount of force in zero g? Mass but one factor when dealing with vectors and forces. You seem to think it’s the only one that matters it’s not. I’m not sure where you studied Physics or if you even did but either way you’re ignoring a lot of factors.
Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works
- Thread starter Geir
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But those are with streamlined or partial streamlined ships. That’s vastly different from say a planetiod or Dis Structure. Wind can do at lot of strange things at ground level (like blow strong in one direction while gusting in another). Turbulence is a real thing and airlines keep their planes out of the major stuff. I definitely agree when using a actual drive and a vehicle/ship that’s at least partially streamlined it should be only a DM to a pilot roll but lifters are a entirely different matter if all they do it counter gravity.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Where did I say ships only have lifters?
I am saying that the lifter component of the m-drive changes how ships land.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The amount of mass you can move in zero g is exactly the same as the mass you can move anywhere else, friction and air resistance are what makes it harder to move stuff on the surface of a planet. Once you have a magic lifter getting rid of weight you still have the same mass to move.
F=ma start with that.
Lifters are what remove the other factors.
And yes, I do know a bit of physics, more than you obviously.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I am intrigued, how does Archimedes figure into this?
Funny F=ma but you for get to do the math if gravity is zero than F=m*0 or F=0. Since gravity is the force we are talking about by eliminating gravity you eliminate the amount of force needed to move the object.
Mass refers to the amount of matter in an object, while weight is the force exerted on that object by gravity, meaning your mass stays the same no matter where you are, but your weight can change depending on the gravitational pull of your location
Weight varies with gravity:
An object's weight changes depending on the gravitational pull it experiences, meaning it will weigh less on the Moon than on Earth
Units of measurement:
Mass is measured in kilograms (kg), while weight is measured in Newtons (N). Newtons are a measure of force that’s why you can move a greater mass in zero g than you can in gravity since the force your counteracting is much less. This is why a man can lift a greater mass on the moon than on earth.
Weight is the primary force you are trying to counteract
Inertia is also known as mass, and they are synonymous terms. Inertia is important because it's how we measure an object's mass. To determine an object's mass, you can:
- Apply a known force to the object
- Measure the rate at which the object accelerates
- Plug these values into the force equation, F=ma
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
δῶς μοι πᾶ στῶ καὶ τὰν γᾶν κινάσω
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Emm, no.
F in this case is the thrust from the m-drive, m is the mass of the ship, a is the resulting acceleration, we are ignoring weight thanks to the magic lifter.
Let me help out a bit.
a=F/m so in order to move your mass you have to apply a force, understand now?
Mass doesn't mean amount of matter but we will go with that since that is what you think it means, its a good enough definition for now.
Since your mass remains the same regardless of weight - the lifter makes you weightless - then you still need a force to move you, which is what the maneuver part of the m-drive provides.
And? The mass remains the same so you still need to exert force to move the mass.
Nope, that is where you are making your mistake. The force required to move mass m on the moon is the same as needed to move mass m on earth, the difference is you must also provide enough force to counteract weight, friction, air resistance.
The lifter already removes weight as a consideration.
And you have finally come full circle to the equation I gave you to consider, not to mention getting a better understanding of mass.
What gives an object inertia?
Nope, inertia remains the same. What is different is friction due to weight etc.
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The function of the lifter is that you don't have to spend any of your thrust on not falling to the ground. And since M Drives can provide thrust in any direction, you can essentially move straight up or whatever other vector best suits the weather. Because your thrust doesn't have to be powerful enough to overcome gravity, just to move your mass.
love how you just counter argued college physic book. I guess you know more than engineers and physicists. again, you keep talking about M-Drive but we are not talking about that. do you even know what vector forces calculation are? Talk to me again once you've actually studied physics
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Yes?...
I mean, I can say it's generic, but if it has Fusion+(or Plus, that's going to be an editorial decision), then that's pretty specific. And I will include some vehicles suitable for various Major Races (and if the artists make a wolf-mobile and a cat-mobile, and a... em, angry-horse-mobile, I will be a little cross with them).
My goal is for it to be usable with other settings, but for 2300AD TL8 grav goes out the window, so I should put something in the intro saying not everything is available in every universe. There are a few pages on biotech vehicles that don't fit well into Charted Space, but it could be for say, Sred*Ni vehicles.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
What are you actually talking about.
Taking away gravity doesn't take away mass. Regardless of local gravity mass remains the same. The force required to accelerate that mass stays the same.
I don't actually think you understand anything about what you are discussing at this point.
Taking away gravity doesn't take away mass. Regardless of local gravity mass remains the same. The force required to accelerate that mass stays the same.
I don't actually think you understand anything about what you are discussing at this point.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
How about a blue box explaining which tech is relevant to which setting? Or a guide to picking the tech assumptions.
No grav or fusion+ for 2300AD but powered armour at TL11 (well walkers anyway).
Why no Kafer or Pentapod vehicles?
here is were you are wrong the force needed to move a mass is a vector. the force needed to counter gravity on the moon is much less that the force needed to counter it on earth. see what you do not understand is force vectors. forces are always measured in vectors.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
Pentapods, yes, that's a good use of biotech for sure (Mommy, this seat is squishy and I think it just pinched me!)
never once did I say that countering gravity eliminate the mass I said it countered a vector force.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I tend to think that lifters reject gravity, so the effect is floating on the pool of gravity.
As you say here, Gravity is the force (well, one of them, since M-Drive, wind, etc. could also apply force), i.e. F, in that equation, so taking it away leaves you with 0 = m*a, or 0/m = a which is 0, i.e. no acceleration.
That doesn't eliminate the force needed to move the object at all because it still has mass, unless you mean specifically the amount of force required to counteract gravity, but that's not the really the same as not needing any force to move the mass.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
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