Upcoming New Vehicle Handbook

[Strithe]

Since I mentioned dimensions, too, I should perhaps explain what I was
thinking of.

I had something like the (otherwise not very convincing) d20 system in
mind, a single table which gives an approximate impression of the dimen-
sion of a vehicle based upon its volume. For example, in the Babylon 5
RPG a vehicle which is "Large" has a length of 8 to 16 feet, and I would
find a similar approximate information for the volume of vehicles very
useful. I am not very good at mathematics, and the way from, for ex-
ample, 10 dtons to an idea of the approximate dimensions of the vehi-
cle is a bit long for my brain and requires the use of a calculator.

So, no precise length/width/height, only a general idea of the size, from
which I can work out the details if I really need them.

A most welcome bonus would be different tables of that kind for ground
vehicles (usually more like boxes), aircraft (usually more slender and
therefore longer) and watercraft (usually about length 3 : width 1 becau-
se of hydrodynamics).

That wouldn't be a bad idea, if only for a basic sense of scale. I think T20 had something like that, and FF&S II did as well (don't know how accurate the latter was).

 

[phavoc]

.... Terry McInnes ran it back and forth across a bunch of the early TML and GEnie heads, several of which were very talented people...

GEnie? Oh my.... Haven't heard that in a very long while!

I miss GEnie. Actually got to talk to some of my fav authors, and even had a discussion with the original creator of Rogue (I think that was the name... text dungeon crawler from Epyx.

Ah, the good old days of 2400baud modems!

 

[Ishmael]

No Traveller vehicle design system has ever provided dimensions beyond volume/mass, so where that criticism comes from confuses me.

Just to be contrary, I have to point out that "Striker" required the designer to give length, width and height for the chassis AND any turrets.

I would want to know, if not the exact dimensions, that at least the l:w:h ratios so I could find the dimensions myself from the vehicle's given volume ( besides being of great importance for aerodynamic/hydrodynamic performance).

It doesn't appear as though this will appeal to me ( old school wargamer/simulationist ), but I can easily see why this approach would be a wonderful game supplement for 'not-like-me' sorts of people.

 

[Rick]

No Traveller vehicle design system has ever provided dimensions beyond volume/mass, so where that criticism comes from confuses me.

Just to be contrary, I have to point out that "Striker" required the designer to give length, width and height for the chassis AND any turrets.

I would want to know, if not the exact dimensions, that at least the l:w:h ratios so I could find the dimensions myself from the vehicle's given volume ( besides being of great importance for aerodynamic/hydrodynamic performance).

It doesn't appear as though this will appeal to me ( old school wargamer/simulationist ), but I can easily see why this approach would be a wonderful game supplement for 'not-like-me' sorts of people.

I'm still fairly undecided on this - I agree that having a table of average dimensions might be a good idea for background fluff, but I don't think it's essential. I also have no interest in working out the aerodynamic or hydronamic performance modifier by speed for every vehicle designed - I'd be perfectly willing to 'handwave' on that one, lol! I think it would be a perfectly acceptable 'baseline' supplement that other people could expand on as much as they want to.

 

[GypsyComet]

I also have no interest in working out the aerodynamic or hydronamic performance modifier by speed for every vehicle designed

Yeah, those calculations are a real drag...

 

[Ewan]

From the Planet Mongoose 10th March

Supplement 5 & 6 - The Vehicle Handbook: We have acknowledged that we have not been really happy with the vehicle construction system for Traveller. So, we decided to do something about it. This combined hardback not only features all the vehicles in the original Supplements 5 & 6, but also every vehicle we have ever detailed for Traveller, in all settings, plus a whole load of new ones! These have been married to an all new vehicle design system that is cleaner, faster and way easier to get to grips with. Those of you who have bought the original Supplements 5 and 6 will have a chance to pick up this book at a greatly reduced rate - more news on that later.

Has any news been released yet on the price reduction for those who bought the original two supplements.

 

[rust]

Has any news been released yet on the price reduction for those who bought the original two supplements.

Not yet, at least I have seen nothing of that kind. I think you will have to
wait until GenCon is over and Mongoose has put up its new website.

 

[Vile]

I have to say I don't think there's much of a halfway house of vehicle design for me. I can easily handwave the whole thing if need be, but if I want to use rules to design a vehicle I want them to be pretty comprehensive.

 

[Jeraa]

I have to say I don't think there's much of a halfway house of vehicle design for me. I can easily handwave the whole thing if need be, but if I want to use rules to design a vehicle I want them to be pretty comprehensive.

Thats the problem. Some people can houserule everything, some (like me) want simple rules, and others want comprehensive rules that can cover everything conceivable about a vehicle, down to the number and volume of cup holders. One set of rules can't do all of that. The people who want more comprehensive rules complain when a book with simple rules is being made. Those who want simple rules complain when a more complicated rules set is being made. And even if one book was being made that contained both, there will still be people complaining that more time and effort should be put into one rules set or the other. People just love to complain about something.

The people who want comprehensive rules still have Supplements 5 & 6. Those of us who want simpler rules will now have something. Now that we all have something that makes us happy, can't we all just get along?

 

[DFW]

The people who want comprehensive rules still have Supplements 5 & 6.

Those 2 books are to littered with errors, illogics & omissions to be useful. Hence, MGT is taking another shot at it.

 

[SM]

The best swing at submarines in Traveller that I recall was the draft version of what eventually got published in Challenge during MT for wet navy designs. Terry McInnes ran it back and forth across a bunch of the early TML and GEnie heads, several of which were very talented people, THEN ran it past an actual naval architect. Sadly GDW edited it a bit for reasons unknown, and their printer mangled it after that. The results as published were much harder to use. While rather number crunchy, as was typical of MegaTraveller, it managed to convey the important bits.

I was that actual naval architect and Terry (all round decent bloke) was very comfortable with the suggestions I made. Neither of us figured out why GDW made the changes that they did.

 

[GypsyComet]

Terry *is* a decent guy, but boy does he play a different game of Traveller than I do. We tried a couple times...

He's pretty close to blind now, but still shows up at the local conventions occasionally.

 

[Jeraa]

Those 2 books are to littered with errors, illogics & omissions to be useful.

In my experience, that can describe a good number of the MGT books (though most of those are still more usable then the current vehicle books).

 

[DFW]

Those 2 books are to littered with errors, illogics & omissions to be useful.

In my experience, that can describe a good number of the MGT books (though most of those are still more usable then the current vehicle books).

True I think the CRB and the like are pretty usable. But, yes there are some weird rules (econ system and the like).

 

[GypsyComet]

True I think the CRB and the like are pretty usable. But, yes there are some weird rules (econ system and the like).

Hold that thought. I've started another topic for it. No point in losing econ discussions in a vehicles thread. :arrow:

 

[Strithe]

It is payload based, with the unit of measure being the Space, approximately the volume required to comfortable contain a person. I can design a civilian vehicle in seconds, and a military vehicle in a couple of minutes.

I like this as well: to me payload-based design is more intuitive. I'm guessing you decide what your payload is (passengers, cargo, equipment), set your desired armor & performance characteristics, and then the system comes up with the final numbers for cost & how big a cargo space it takes up?

One of the headaches with more simulationist systems is, until you're intimately familiar with them, there's a lot of trial & error: you get halfway through the design process & suddenly realize that you can't get the the range, cargo space, etc. you wanted out of a given hull size & have to start over.

Would I be heretical in wanting a starship (or at least a small craft) design system that worked on similar lines?

Don't get me wrong, the tech-head side of me would love all sorts of little details on a vehicle, and I get why some are disappointed with what's being presented here. For me, I game because I (or more accurately my characters or NPC's) actually get to DO something: in the case of Traveller I'd much rather spend time exploring strange planets, meeting interesting aliens, and then killing them. If I want to spend hours calculating how to boost the performance of a ground car an extra 2% by altering the suspension so that the center of gravity is more optimal, or changing the slope of the nose for less drag & more downforce, I'll just go to my day job.

I was a little hesitant about pre-ordering this a couple months ago (the previous vehicle books were, in my opinion, terrible), but as more details come out the only other book I'm more eagerly anticipating is 2300AD.