Runequest vs heroquest

[burdock]

I am assuming that most people here were not satisfied with the Heroquest rules for playing in Glorantha and hearkened back, rather, to the days of Runequest. I have recently been thinking about Heroquest and how its simple, fluid mechanics are ideal for playing within the deep mythical themes as presented by Joseph Campbell in The Hero With A Thousand Faces (etc). The gritty realism of Runequest could never allow us to be unleashed sufficiently from a corporeal representation of the world in order to touch upon the living energies encapsulated by those great myths.
So, I'm wondering, what is it that draws people to Runequest? Is it that same gritty realism? Is it a wish to play within the structure of a "solid" seeming reality?
At the moment I feel that for me there could be room for both systems. Runequest (or BRP) when I want to feel the solidity of the sun-warmed stones on the walls of Old Pavis...and Heroquest when I want to reach into the void and tenderly touch the wounds in the universe that Arroin destroyed himself trying to heal.

What do you all reckon?

 

[Dr_Snugglebunny]

True, although also as HQ is based in 3rd age and RQ in 2nd age they are currently distinct games and settings.

In my campaign we've switched from house RQ3 rules (in the mortal realm) to playing HQ/other (even YAHQS) systems when PCs are on major heroquests. Takes some conversion of stats, sure, but adds a nice touch that the rules change (simplify etc) deep in the lands of myth, to drive home that Things Ain't the Same Here. My players have enjoyed it.

 

[burdock]

dr snuggle wrote

In my campaign we've switched from house RQ3 rules (in the mortal realm) to playing HQ/other (even YAHQS) systems when PCs are on major heroquests

Aha! I find it interesting that people have come to the same conclusion as me on this subject....Anyone else had this idea?

what is YAHQS?

 

[iamtim]

*blink, blink*

*hides head in shame*

I could never grok HQ. I tried... REAL hard. I even attended a "How to play HQ" seminar at GenCon SoCal the first year put on by some dude who worked at Issaries.

I wanted to. REAL bad. It just never clicked for me.

*deep sigh*

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

I don't really know HQ too well but what little I've seen doesn't really appeal. It's one of those things I can't quite put my finger on, but maybe it's a case of there's only so much Greg a body an take, and HQ is past my limit.

RQ on the other hand was deservedly legendary back in the day, and the sheer quality of the supplements topped things off.

Maybe it's a Lennon/McCartney thing?

 

[Zotzz]

How useful is the background material. I am new to Glorantha and am trying to get a feel for the world. I am having trouble getting my hands on any of the old RQ2/3 material and was wondering if the HQ world material was worth the download from RPGDriveThru.

I realize that it is 3rd age and that MRQ is 2nd age.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

How useful is the background material. I am new to Glorantha and am trying to get a feel for the world. I am having trouble getting my hands on any of the old RQ2/3 material and was wondering if the HQ world material was worth the download from RPGDriveThru.

I realize that it is 3rd age and that MRQ is 2nd age.

I got the "Glorantha - Introduction to the Hero Wars" PDF which is effectively a reprint of some old RQ3 stuff (with some updates and additions) which I lost long ago, and it's quite a good overview of the whole world. Totally systemless as well, which never hurts. Plus it's reasonably priced, although the maps could be a lot better.

 

[atgxtg]

RQ had the feel of playing in an Ancient Earth style of setting, but with a modern viewpoint. Sort of how we would envision the Greeks would deal with real life while retelling the tales of great heroes like Jason, Achilles or Heracles. Extraordinary events but with a "real" setting. THe world seems logical, cause & effect.

HQ has a much more "mythic" feel to it. INstead getting the image of historcial Grece, it give an impression of being entirely mythic in an of itself. More like adventuring in the "otherworld" of faery stories. Things do not make sense when compared to the "real world" but only make sense in the contenxt that they are viewed in.

Two different empashis.

 

[Dr_Snugglebunny]

what is YAHQS?

Yet Another Heroquesting System; probably still google-able somewhere. Pretty rules-light!!! Makes HQ look like... I dunno... something much more complex. Powers&Perils?

 

[Utgardloki]

I agree with the concept of using different rules for different moods.

Myself, the attraction to using RQ fantasy rules is to see how the fantasy roleplaying would be different using a different metaphysics than used in D&D. I've posted before about settings that would naturally match D&D rules (such as Greek Myth or Pirates of the Carribean) and settings that would naturally match RQ rules (such as Rokugan or Ravenloft).

But after buying the MRQ set, I saw that it had features I was looking for for a modern game, so started work on a "Runequest Modern" project. It's the gritty realism tempered by the opportunity to add heroic possibilities that attracts me.

I've never tried Heroquest. Maybe I ought to sometime.

 

[King Amenjar]

RQ had the feel of playing in an Ancient Earth style of setting, but with a modern viewpoint. Sort of how we would envision the Greeks would deal with real life while retelling the tales of great heroes like Jason, Achilles or Heracles. Extraordinary events but with a "real" setting. THe world seems logical, cause & effect.

HQ has a much more "mythic" feel to it. INstead getting the image of historcial Grece, it give an impression of being entirely mythic in an of itself. More like adventuring in the "otherworld" of faery stories. Things do not make sense when compared to the "real world" but only make sense in the contenxt that they are viewed in.

Two different empashis.

Yes, I agree... plus, whereas RQ was grim and bloody, HQ was a bit namby-pamby with nobody getting hurt and stuff.

 

[burdock]

king amenjar wrote

namby pamby

Translates: "deeply symbolic" ?


zotzz wrote

I am having trouble getting my hands on any of the old RQ2/3 material

I know others wont agree with this but I think the best intro to Glorantha is not to get one of the "overview of the world" supplements but to get something very localised or specific that introduces you to the powerful, magical, deeply mythic atmosphere. Don't try and grasp the whole thing in one go! Start with something small and beautiful and enjoy the journey. One of the Cult books would be good starting point (cults of prax etc) as the stories of the gods are beautiful and more central to the Gloranthan mythos than the geography (although the two are inextricably bound). I always think that the scenario "Snakepipe Hollow" is good to read as a piece of literature: It is so magical, with the ancient Earth temple marred by chaos and frozen in time.
For me Glorantha is not a collection of facts. It is an atmosphere. See if you can catch that atmosphere and don't worry too much about the facts!!

 

[AKAramis]

Runquest is firmly simulationist rules coupled to a setting with strong narrative possibilities. "Playing in a mythic world with characters who don't realize it is a myth"

Heroquest is narrativism with just a slight touch of gamism... HQ is for telling really epic stories, with just enough dice and rules to make it a game.

It's "Playing the myth with the characters knowing that it is a myth."

Setting-wise, the HQ setting materials are a mixed bag; the problem is that they presume a good working knowledge of the dark ages (500-800AD), and/or having a pre-extant passing concept of Glorantha helps.

Excellent reads, still don't want to play there... but YMMV, and probably should....

 

[soltakss]

king amenjar wrote

namby pamby

Translates: "deeply symbolic" ?

No, namby pamby is about right.

zotzz wrote

I am having trouble getting my hands on any of the old RQ2/3 material

I know others wont agree with this but I think the best intro to Glorantha is not to get one of the "overview of the world" supplements but to get something very localised or specific that introduces you to the powerful, magical, deeply mythic atmosphere. Don't try and grasp the whole thing in one go! Start with something small and beautiful and enjoy the journey. One of the Cult books would be good starting point (cults of prax etc) as the stories of the gods are beautiful and more central to the Gloranthan mythos than the geography (although the two are inextricably bound). I always think that the scenario "Snakepipe Hollow" is good to read as a piece of literature: It is so magical, with the ancient Earth temple marred by chaos and frozen in time.

The Cult Compendium is a better bet than Cults of Prax/Cults of Terror as it contains all the RQ2 Cults and more in a single book.

 

[The King]

The Cult Compendium is a better bet than Cults of Prax/Cults of Terror as it contains all the RQ2 Cults and more in a single book.

But it doesn't include either all the trolls cults or the cults from Lords of terror.

 

[soltakss]

I am assuming that most people here were not satisfied with the Heroquest rules for playing in Glorantha and hearkened back, rather, to the days of Runequest.

No, I quite liked HeroQuest in many ways. The problem with it was tat they generalised things and then made them specific again.

By that, I mean they lumped things into Keywords (Good) and then used all the skills separately (Bad). They turned combat and opposed rolls into a simple roll as a Simple Contest (Good) and then brought in Extended Contests (Bad) which never really worked for me.

When we played HeroQuest, it took longer than playing RQ, which for a game specificalle mentioned to be faster than RQ was not that good.

I have recently been thinking about Heroquest and how its simple, fluid mechanics are ideal for playing within the deep mythical themes as presented by Joseph Campbell in The Hero With A Thousand Faces (etc). The gritty realism of Runequest could never allow us to be unleashed sufficiently from a corporeal representation of the world in order to touch upon the living energies encapsulated by those great myths.

Maybe. I'm not all that keen on the "HeroQuest is for Myths" argument. You could play at any level using HeroQuest - look at Mythic Russia. It is very scalable and very generic.

So, I'm wondering, what is it that draws people to Runequest? Is it that same gritty realism? Is it a wish to play within the structure of a "solid" seeming reality?

For me, it is the sense of when my PC attacks with a Bastard Sword, I can feel the blow going in, the opponent blocking it, the blade digging into his leg and him falling over. When I jump over a chasm I use Jumping, when I climb a mountain I use Climbing. It's that level of grittiness that I like. When I cast a spell I know it comes from my own magic store and I have a limited amount of magic. When I wrestle with a troll, I know how big he is compared to me.

To a certain extent RQM has lost that level of grittiness. It has combined skills to a huge extent, so I don't know if I am a good swimmer, climber or runner. I can't be one of these, I have to be all of them. I may be nearly deaf but have excellent eyesight, or nearly blind with excellent hearing, but in the rules I have Perception which covers hearing, seeing and everything.

At the moment I feel that for me there could be room for both systems. Runequest (or BRP) when I want to feel the solidity of the sun-warmed stones on the walls of Old Pavis...and Heroquest when I want to reach into the void and tenderly touch the wounds in the universe that Arroin destroyed himself trying to heal.

There is certainly room for both systems. I've played HeroQuest at several levels and it seems to work, although it does slow down at really high levels. I've played RQ at all levels, even on HeroQuests, and it works with house rules.

 

[homerjsinnott]

king amenjar wrote

namby pamby

Translates: "deeply symbolic" ?

No, namby pamby is about right.

zotzz wrote

I am having trouble getting my hands on any of the old RQ2/3 material

I know others wont agree with this but I think the best intro to Glorantha is not to get one of the "overview of the world" supplements but to get something very localised or specific that introduces you to the powerful, magical, deeply mythic atmosphere. Don't try and grasp the whole thing in one go! Start with something small and beautiful and enjoy the journey. One of the Cult books would be good starting point (cults of prax etc) as the stories of the gods are beautiful and more central to the Gloranthan mythos than the geography (although the two are inextricably bound). I always think that the scenario "Snakepipe Hollow" is good to read as a piece of literature: It is so magical, with the ancient Earth temple marred by chaos and frozen in time.

The Cult Compendium is a better bet than Cults of Prax/Cults of Terror as it contains all the RQ2 Cults and more in a single book.

Sorry to say but I agree with Burdock on this one.


Namby-pamby.

Perhaps less testoserone is needed. To my mind not killing almost every thing you met was a radical and less psychopathic way of dealing with role playing. Most gaming systems remind of a fifteen year old boy's mentality, 'might is right', they haven't developed the right mental equipment to deal with these situations any other way.


The compendium is CoP and CoT stuck together.

 

[Enpeze]

How useful is the background material. I am new to Glorantha and am trying to get a feel for the world. I am having trouble getting my hands on any of the old RQ2/3 material and was wondering if the HQ world material was worth the download from RPGDriveThru.

I realize that it is 3rd age and that MRQ is 2nd age.

I you like the world setting, its worth to buy everything. (3rd age) There are some books from Moon Design (reprints from older RQ material)

http://www.glorantha.info/shop/shop.html

And even if you dont like Glorantha (like myself), you could buy these books and scavenging them for adventure ideas of your RQ game.

 

[Darran]

Yes, I agree... plus, whereas RQ was grim and bloody, HQ was a bit namby-pamby with nobody getting hurt and stuff.

Namby-pamby!!?? :evil:

When I have ran my HeroQuest games at conventions I get comments like:

"Wow, got more done in that one session than we ever got done in a campaign!" - This was after dealing with some young Broolings to kill them, seeking out help to decipher an augury at another town, following a 'dodgy' messenger and knocking him out, rushing to the defence of a village, a full scale pitched battle, a victory feast, interrogation of prisoners, launching a reprisal raid involving a trip across the River [including full planning], bypassing enemy patrols in a dense wood, getting caught up in a 'weird' fog, fighting undead horrors in an old tower, deal with a case of kin-slaying and then bringing peace between two feuding clans [after some executions of the ring-leaders of the raiders]. Phew!
This was in four hours of a convention game. :shock:

or

"Glorantha is a deadly place to be!" - This was after the PCs had caught one of the bad guys. They had a choice whether to just execute him or torture him first! :twisted:

My HeroQuest games are nothing like namby-pamby, in fact they are more brutal then my old RuneQuest games of old.

 

[RMS]

"Glorantha is a deadly place to be!" - This was after the PCs had caught one of the bad guys. They had a choice whether to just execute him or torture him first! :twisted:

My HeroQuest games are nothing like namby-pamby, in fact they are more brutal then my old RuneQuest games of old.

I run HQ too (in addition to RQ) and agree with this. HQ is only "namby-pamby" if the players want it that way. It can easily be as gritty (or more) than RQ if that's what's desired. It's a nifty system in that it'll handle either situation perfectly well, as written. However, either does take interpretation and more proactive players.

I like running it because it's so fast and simple in play.