Repairing Starship Armour

[Morningkiller]

I'm not sure if I missed something in the main rulebook but I'm unsure as to how you repair armour damage from space combat on your ship.

Running through Pirates of Drinax at the moment and the PCs got into a serious situation with a Far Trader and Scoutship. Their armour was blown off and though they managed to destroy the two attacking raider ships they took a hell of a beating (All hull, 3 structure and a disabled M-Drive...).

Does armour count as a 'system' for the repair rules. If so does the system count as 'destroyed' since the armour points were reduced to zero.

It seems a bit harsh to require replacing all of the armour. The penalties to armour in the ship combat rules seem to be an abstraction of local armour breaches that an enemy can capitalise on rather than wholesale destruction of the vessels protection.

Any ideas?

 

[BP]

If the armour is abstractly down to 0 - it is essentially ineffective, i.e. destroyed from a game mechanic perspective.

In game, descriptively one might say it is slagged and fractured to the point that it is useless in every given area of the hull - not totally gone, but worthless as armour.

Thus replacement (ala a destroyed system) is the only available option...

 

[Morningkiller]

If the armour is abstractly down to 0 - it is essentially ineffective, i.e. destroyed from a game mechanic perspective.

In game, descriptively one might say it is slagged and fractured to the point that it is useless in every given area of the hull - not totally gone, but worthless as armour.

Thus replacement (ala a destroyed system) is the only available option...

Safe enough - the guys will probably take this opportunity to upgrade to better armour while she is drydocked.

If they still had one point left then would they use the system repair rules?

Would each lost point of armour then require it's own roll to repair (and thus potentially need spare parts) or would you make a single roll for the armour as a whole?

thanks

 

[CosmicGamer]

What repair rolls are you referring to? If you are referring to system repair, I don't believe hull, structure or armor are considered systems?

Without seeing the specific applicable rules, my first thought is that the armor needs to be removed and replaced and not repaired. Might be cost for removing armor + cost of armor + additional cost since it's probably more problematic to do it now than when a ship is originally being built. When built, things are done in a certain order; now certain systems, like sensors, maybe airlocks, cargo bay doors, even maneuver drives may have to be removed to get at all the areas needed and then reinstalled after the armor.

 

[Morningkiller]

What repair rolls are you referring to? If you are referring to system repair, I don't believe hull, structure or armor are considered systems?

Without seeing the specific applicable rules, my first thought is that the armor needs to be removed and replaced and not repaired. Might be cost for removing armor + cost of armor + additional cost since it's probably more problematic to do it now than when a ship is originally being built. When built, things are done in a certain order; now certain systems, like sensors, maybe airlocks, cargo bay doors, even maneuver drives may have to be removed to get at all the areas needed and then reinstalled after the armor.

If you roll a 7 on the external hit location in space combat the target ship loses a point of armour (p. 151 main rulebook).

Hull and structure have their own subsystems for repair but armour is not mentioned separately. Thus the only option seems to treat it as a 'system' which feels a little odd. I was looking for clarification on this.

 

[BP]

The differences between hull and systems repair is that hull always requires 1 ton of spares and systems repair is temporary. Structure requires a shipyard.

IMO the repair rules are way too terse and appear as a munchkin afterthought instead of a balanced, thought out and tested roleplaying aspect. <shrug>

Within the context of the RAW, I can see Armour as a 'system' that can be temporarily repaired, but repair would hold next X combat turns (instead of 1d6 hours) and be subject to having 'spares' (material) for armour based on points lost. (That latter rules out most adventure ship repairs, IMO.) Permanent repairs would require a shipyard.

However, I would suggest putting on your Ref hat and handling things on a case by case basis.

Personally, I like for PC skills (and player ingenuity) to factor into things. So duration of simple 1d6 hours doesn't cut it for me. For starters, a highly experienced/Int/Edu Mechanic (say 3+ DM) should be able to do a 'permanent' jury rigging on success (heck, on an exceptional roll I might even add feature/rating enhancements for non-drives).

For systems with ratings/features marginal success might result in losses. Likewise, temporary nature may exhibit itself in losses rather than failures.

I'm generally okay with 'spare parts' as generic tons of stuff, but when it comes to how much is required, I'd handle that on a case by case basis as well. Ex: Hull damage might require a ton per point, or X% of the ship. One hit to a 1 ton turret isn't going to require 1 ton for repairs...

Depending on the adventure, a roll (or Ref fiat) for type of 'spare parts' might be in order and might lead to a sub-adventure. Yeah, you have 10 tons of spares, unfortunately sometimes a thing broke can't be fixed and you don't have a spare catalyzer...

 

[Morningkiller]

I'd be wary of requiring full space-docking to repair armour damage. It's going to happen so often that the party will be laid up in port a lot. At least with structure damage you need to take a savage beatdown before it occurs so it won't be commonplace. As this is a Pirates of Drinax game I don't want to cramp their swashbuckling style with too much ship maintenance.

Allowing short-term armour repair in combat might be an option with repair drones. I can't see a mechanic wanting to do an EVA while under ship laser fire but sending a few robots with remote ops or auto repair out on the hull welding on patches seems pretty cool. A critical failure gets the drones scragged while out there.

For long-term repairs I'll probably go for a mechanic roll (1-6 hours) per armour point restored with the amount of spare parts required as per the effect on the repair table.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Perhaps base things on ship tonnage and not just points of armour. I would think1 point of armour on a 2000 ton ship is a lot more work and supplies and time than 1 point of armor on a 300 ton ship.

 

[Morningkiller]

Perhaps base things on ship tonnage and not just points of armour. I would think1 point of armour on a 2000 ton ship is a lot more work and supplies and time than 1 point of armor on a 300 ton ship.

I'll probably up the tons for bigger ships alright. They are only in a 200 tonner at the moment. The type of armour may also make a difference.

 

[BP]

I'd be wary of requiring ...

That's the spirit!

Rules should be tailored to the adventures and campaigns you run. Its nice when published material can provide a framework, but too many rules becomes red-tape and often inapplicable to real play...

CT, at least with the handful of LBBs I used for some 20 years had very terse rules and not a lot of them... not even a universal task mechanic. Yet it worked really, really well. By comparison, MgT has a lot of rules - and at first I thought these were great and addressed something I had been missing all those years. Till I began playing with them. Not only are there lots of overlooked, or just plain unbelievable (and sometimes ignorant or 'broken') aspects when applying them - but they often get in the way of roleplaying. (*Not that such couldn't be said of any set of rules...)

 

[Jak Nazryth]

At the office so going by memory...
My players took at least one hit on their armor.
Since Armor takes out real tonnage from the total ship design, it will be easy to figure out.
Forgive me if I sound like a TL7 mechanic, but…
To me “spare parts” is a real loose term. It means gears, duct tape, sheet metal blanks that can be cut into a varity of shapes as needed, uni-strut structural pieces, wiring bundles, etc… just catch-all “stuff” you need to help repair a wide range of systems.
Hull plating and especially armor IMTU are slightly different. Since you can calculate how many tons of Armor you will actually loose when going from 4 points to 3 points, it will be easy to calculate the cost of replacement armor. Lets face it, crystal iron or bonded superdense IS NOT “spare parts” lol.
Anyway, that’s how I would handle repairs to armor and hull patches. You can do these repairs in the field, as structural damage is the only ‘systeme’ requiring a ship yard per the rules. But then again, field repaired armor and hull plating wont look nice and show room finish. It will give ships a lot of character with obvious repaired battle damage etc…

 

[Morningkiller]

At the office so going by memory...
My players took at least one hit on their armor.
Since Armor takes out real tonnage from the total ship design, it will be easy to figure out.
Forgive me if I sound like a TL7 mechanic, but…
To me “spare parts” is a real loose term. It means gears, duct tape, sheet metal blanks that can be cut into a varity of shapes as needed, uni-strut structural pieces, wiring bundles, etc… just catch-all “stuff” you need to help repair a wide range of systems.
Hull plating and especially armor IMTU are slightly different. Since you can calculate how many tons of Armor you will actually loose when going from 4 points to 3 points, it will be easy to calculate the cost of replacement armor. Lets face it, crystal iron or bonded superdense IS NOT “spare parts” lol.
Anyway, that’s how I would handle repairs to armor and hull patches. You can do these repairs in the field, as structural damage is the only ‘systeme’ requiring a ship yard per the rules. But then again, field repaired armor and hull plating wont look nice and show room finish. It will give ships a lot of character with obvious repaired battle damage etc…

That's probably what I'd go for if I was doing a 'harder' sci-fi type campaign. For Pirates of Drinax I'm going with the following to keep things moving -

1. Armour totally destroyed - then it needs to be fully replaced in space-dock at full price.

2. In combat - breaches can be patched with a -2 Mechanic check per armour point lost and repair drones (or massive balls of steel and an EVA) on the hull. Spare parts usage based on the effect of the check as per the table. A critical failure indicates the exterm=nal mechanic catches some fire or flies off into the void somehow.
The patch lasts for the fight or until damaged again.

3. After combat - unmodified mechanic check per armour point and spare part usage as above for long-term repair.

 

[Jeraa]

A starship can have only one type of armor installed. To surround a starship’s hull in armor or to upgrade the armor, a character must succeed at a Craft (structural) check (DC 30) after investing 600 hours in its assembly. A character without a mechanical tool kit takes a –4 penalty on the skill check. The character must also make a Wealth check against the armor’s (or upgraded armor’s) purchase DC.

I was going to say "What does d20 Modern/Future rules have to do with Mongoose Traveller?", then I found out this is a spam account.

Another post by the same person, in this thread.

so on a mk1 rabbit for example, when people do shaved engine bays what do they do for a heater? or do they just not run one? or is there like an electric one they use? i dont know, just on my mind.. After The Watchdog revealed she failed to report the gifts on state forms, she was given a $2,000 administrative fine in 2010.

(If this is not a spam account, I do apologize for saying that. Some of the posts do seem fine, but these two lead me to believe something is up, as well as the link in the signature. One has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, and another is for an entirely different rules system.)

 

[Morningkiller]

A starship can have only one type of armor installed. To surround a starship’s hull in armor or to upgrade the armor, a character must succeed at a Craft (structural) check (DC 30) after investing 600 hours in its assembly. A character without a mechanical tool kit takes a –4 penalty on the skill check. The character must also make a Wealth check against the armor’s (or upgraded armor’s) purchase DC.

I was going to say "What does d20 Modern/Future rules have to do with Mongoose Traveller?", then I found out this is a spam account.

Another post by the same person, in this thread.

so on a mk1 rabbit for example, when people do shaved engine bays what do they do for a heater? or do they just not run one? or is there like an electric one they use? i dont know, just on my mind.. After The Watchdog revealed she failed to report the gifts on state forms, she was given a $2,000 administrative fine in 2010.

(If this is not a spam account, I do apologize for saying that. Some of the posts do seem fine, but these two lead me to believe something is up, as well as the link in the signature. One has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, and another is for an entirely different rules system.)

It's just another failed Turing test. :mrgreen:

 

[phavoc]

Players should never be able to "repair" armor out of their normal shipboard supplies. At best they can patch things to make their ship spaceworthy and to hold atmosphere again. But repair can only be done when you have the sufficient materials.

Perhaps, if they had the skills and equipment available, an enterprising PC could cut slabs and sheets of armor off another ship and weld them over his own holes. It should give (at most) about 50% of the same damage resistance as the original armor, but no more. Armor requires an underlying structure to help dissipate the energy of a weapons strike, so you need to repair more than the surface structure to fully recoup all of your armor.

Assuming the equipment and materials were available, a skilled PC could probably make the necessary repairs to their ship. But battlefield repairs should be limited, unless they PC's have access to a drydock or some other repair-capable platform.

 

[2330ADUSA1]

Yes I agree, they should have to go to a shipyard somewear and use equipment there to replace damage and fix issues correctly. There should be a cost in time and credits, that they must pay. Maybe if they have the skills they could do the work cheaper, but make it a must to do it at a shipyardsstarport somewhere.

Penn