Auto Repair Software where?

[mavikfelna]

Ok, so I'm still working on ship automation and trying to track down everything that can be used to replace crew. One obviously thing is the Auto Repair software for ship's computers. But I cannot find anywhere where it actually talks about the software. It shows up on designs in the CRB and HG in the earliest versions I have but it is not listed or described anywhere in any of the books I have.
Can someone please post the official description of this software and what exactly it does? I've been told by others I need it to have repair drones fix the ship automatically, but I've never seen the actual rules for it.

And as an additional question, Virtual Crew is listed as only replacing Pilots, Gunners and Sensor Operators, HG p75. Is this list expanded anywhere? If you need to replace a Pilot and a Gunner, this implies that you do not need Virtual Gunner software for the Gunner. Is this countermanded anywhere?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Ok, so I'm still working on ship automation and trying to track down everything that can be used to replace crew. One obviously thing is the Auto Repair software for ship's computers. But I cannot find anywhere where it actually talks about the software.

Core, p161.

And as an additional question, Virtual Crew is listed as only replacing Pilots, Gunners and Sensor Operators, HG p75. Is this list expanded anywhere? If you need to replace a Pilot and a Gunner, this implies that you do not need Virtual Gunner software for the Gunner. Is this countermanded anywhere?

Virtual Crew is written to automate smallcraft.

Virtual Gunner is presumably for ships.


Expert systems can replace the rest of the crew, if you have enough bandwidth. Repair drones or robots can presumably supply the needed hands.

 

[Condottiere]

Virtual crew should be individualized, and bandwidth dependent on complexity of the task, and sophistication/level of the programme.

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

And as an additional question, Virtual Crew is listed as only replacing Pilots, Gunners and Sensor Operators, HG p75. Is this list expanded anywhere? If you need to replace a Pilot and a Gunner, this implies that you do not need Virtual Gunner software for the Gunner. Is this countermanded anywhere?

Virtual Gunner replaces up to 10 gunners, whereas Virtual Crew can replace up to 5 pilots/gunners/sensor operators.

If all you need is one gunner and one pilot, Virtual Crew is sufficient. If you need to automate dozens or hundreds of gunnery crew, Virtual Gunner becomes a better option.

 

[mavikfelna]

Core, p161.



Virtual Crew is written to automate smallcraft.

Virtual Gunner is presumably for ships.


Expert systems can replace the rest of the crew, if you have enough bandwidth. Repair drones or robots can presumably supply the needed hands.

Thank you! I overlooked the table and I was searching for it unhyphenated so the only place I was fining it was in the 1 ship description that has it listed san hyphen.

Virtual crew software specifically mentions ships, not small craft, and that a bridge is not required if sufficient crew are replaced. But the only positions it explicitly eliminates are Pilot, Gunner and Sensor Operators. By removing the bridge it implies you can also eliminate the Astrogator but does not cover that possibility nor it's effects. RH pg 103 does list the effects of having a robot brain handle the jump calculations but this is in relation to the robot brain linking to the ship's computer and running the Astrogation Skill expert program, not the Virtual Crew ship's software doing it. Which then implies Virtual Crew can replace the bridge for non-Starship large craft but not Jump capable craft, but it is not stated anywhere.

Pilot, Astrogator, Sensor Operator, Engineers and Gunner get explicit mentions as having stations on the bridge but Engineers and Gunners also are described as having stations near or in the weapons locations (including capital weapons). This needs to be clarified. The way it is listed in HG for Virtual Crew, there is no limitation on what the gunners are operating so they could be operating spinal mounts where as the Virtual Gunner software specificly excludes Capital weapons from its list. So on a large ship, presumably I could use the Virtual Crew to replace the spinal mount gunners and then Virtual Gunner to replace all the other gunners.

Before now, I've simply been using it as it's used in @Arkathan's spreadsheet to replace all non-gunner crew and sometime remove the bridge to create a drone ship. But looking at the rules as written, that is incorrect. It needs a ship's brain to replace Astrogators and the implication is that it needs robots to replace the engineers, mechanics, stewards, medics, admins and officers, but this is not stated anywhere explicitly.

This is unlike the rules for K'kree automation packages, AoCS1, p 155-157. Which is explicit in what crew can be replaced and that it takes ship's tonnage to do so. I am leaning towards saying this is the correct way to ship's automation without explicitly using brains and robots.

 

[mavikfelna]

Virtual crew should be individualized, and bandwidth dependent on complexity of the task, and sophistication/level of the programme.

This is what I am trying to figure out. And the rules for K'kree automation packages are the only rules I've found thus far that spell this out. The rules in the RH for it also work, somewhat awkwardly, but do not require ship's tonnage unless the robot is larger than size 6, as the Induction Plates do not take up any space, just add cost.

 

[mavikfelna]

Virtual Gunner replaces up to 10 gunners, whereas Virtual Crew can replace up to 5 pilots/gunners/sensor operators.

If all you need is one gunner and one pilot, Virtual Crew is sufficient. If you need to automate dozens or hundreds of gunnery crew, Virtual Gunner becomes a better option.

The other thing to note from the software description is that Virtual Gunner excludes Capital weapons from it's allowed listing but Virtual Crew does not exclude anything. So on a captal warship with a spinal mount, you would have to use Virtual Crew to replace the spinal mount gunnery crew.

 

[Condottiere]

Certain functions require physical manipulation, such as repairs.

I'd certainly include handling ordnance without automatic loading.

Energy weapons seem candidates for solid state components.

Unless the repair bots are autonomous, some form of continuous wireless linkage and supervision would be required.

 

[mavikfelna]

Certain functions require physical manipulation, such as repairs.

I'd certainly include handling ordnance without automatic loading.

Energy weapons seem candidates for solid state components.

Unless the repair bots are autonomous, some form of continuous wireless linkage and supervision would be required.

The implications from the RH are that the robot are autonomous with drone interfaces, so they are only rarely under the direct control of the ship's brain or computer.

And I agree that physical things should have requirement for physical equipment, but turrets have autoloaders and do not need a gunner to move ammunition unless it's in a magazine that is not attached to the weapon. In which case you need a mechanic or laborer robot to move the ammunition.

The Auto Repair software explicitly requires repair drones be equipped on the ship, so it would be logical for the Virtual Crew software to require drones or robots if it handled the jobs of Engineer, Mechanic, Steward and Medic and with a Robot Input Interface on the ship's computer. All of its other functions could be handled through a Robot Brain Interface to the bridge for Pilot, Astrogation, Administration, Sensor Operator and Officer positions. If there is no bridge on the ship, the interface would be directly into the ship's system but should still cost similarly to the interface on a bridge.

 

[Arkathan]

Before now, I've simply been using it as it's used in @Arkathan's spreadsheet to replace all non-gunner crew and sometime remove the bridge to create a drone ship. But looking at the rules as written, that is incorrect. It needs a ship's brain to replace Astrogators and the implication is that it needs robots to replace the engineers, mechanics, stewards, medics, admins and officers, but this is not stated anywhere explicitly.

Which is why robot crew was added to the crew tab of the ship design sheet a while back.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Virtual crew software specifically mentions ships, not small craft, and that a bridge is not required if sufficient crew are replaced. But the only positions it explicitly eliminates are Pilot, Gunner and Sensor Operators. By removing the bridge it implies you can also eliminate the Astrogator but does not cover that possibility nor it's effects.

The wording is specific... Virtual Crew can automate craft that only requires Pilots, Gunners, and SensOps, i.e. small craft. Ships also require Astrogators and Engineers, so can't be completely automated and can't omit the bridge.

RH pg 103 does list the effects of having a robot brain handle the jump calculations but this is in relation to the robot brain linking to the ship's computer and running the Astrogation Skill expert program, not the Virtual Crew ship's software doing it. Which then implies Virtual Crew can replace the bridge for non-Starship large craft but not Jump capable craft, but it is not stated anywhere.

It is implicitly stated:

HG'22, p75:
Crew can replace up to five pilots, gunners or sensor operators on board a ship, potentially allowing the ship to act autonomously if all crew can be replaced in this way. Indeed, ships can be designed without a bridge, relying purely on this software package in order to function as a drone.

In order to omit the bridge and function as a drone, all crew must be automated by Virtual Crew.
Non-starships require Engineers.
Virtual Crew can't replace Engineers.
Hence, non-starships can't omit the bridge and function as a drone by this rule...


You can replace Astrogators with Expert software and Engineers with Expert software + drones, or robots, but that is not enough for that specific rule, you still need a bridge.

This is unlike the rules for K'kree automation packages, AoCS1, p 155-157. Which is explicit in what crew can be replaced and that it takes ship's tonnage to do so. I am leaning towards saying this is the correct way to ship's automation without explicitly using brains and robots.

I don't have that, so I can't say. It seems to be a simplified system that works regardless of ship size.

 

[mavikfelna]

The wording is specific... Virtual Crew can automate craft that only requires Pilots, Gunners, and SensOps, i.e. small craft. Ships also require Astrogators and Engineers, so can't be completely automated and can't omit the bridge.



It is implicitly stated:

In order to omit the bridge and function as a drone, all crew must be automated by Virtual Crew.
Non-starships require Engineers.
Virtual Crew can't replace Engineers.
Hence, non-starships can't omit the bridge and function as a drone by this rule...


You can replace Astrogators with Expert software and Engineers with Expert software + drones, or robots, but that is not enough for that specific rule, you still need a bridge.



I don't have that, so I can't say. It seems to be a simplified system that works regardless of ship size.

The rules for Automated Crew software explicitly say the bridge can be removed. This implies that Engineer is not a required position on the BRIDGE. So it works for non-starship. It still doesn't work for starships however because of the Astrogator.

 

[mavikfelna]

Which is why robot crew was added to the crew tab of the ship design sheet a while back.

So, building the most basic starship at 100 tons, using the Automated Crew software and setting it for Commercial crew type, it requires a minimum of 2 virtual crew to allow it to remove the bridge and become a drone ship. If you check the Sensor Operator crew box, the minimum crew is raised 3. So this tracks with replacing the bridge. But, it also explicitly requires that the Astrogator be replaced by the Virtual Crew software, which in HG is not allowed, by omission of the allowed crew that can be replace. So is this rule updated somewhere?
Update: also, changing to Military crew requires 3 more virtual crew, the 2 additional pilots and the Captain. Since we don't know if the Captain qualifies as a Pilot, this would also be illegal with a strict interpretation of the Virtual Crew rule.

 

[Condottiere]

The bridge becomes virtual, and volume would be whatever the server requires.

However, you're still paying for wiring up the spacecraft, default half a megastarbux per hundred tonnes.

As regards the astrogator, maybe a sensor workstation.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The rules for Automated Crew software explicitly say the bridge can be removed.

Yes, the bridge can be omitted if the entire crew can be automated by Virtual Crew (not any other automation).

This implies that Engineer is not a required position on the BRIDGE. So it works for non-starship. It still doesn't work for starships however because of the Astrogator.

That's irrelevant to the Virtual Crew rule. Whether the crew would normally be on the bridge or not, the entire required crew must be replaced by Virtual Crew alone to omit the bridge.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

Update: also, changing to Military crew requires 3 more virtual crew, the 2 additional pilots and the Captain. Since we don't know if the Captain qualifies as a Pilot, this would also be illegal with a strict interpretation of the Virtual Crew rule.

The extra pilots are to ensure one is on duty at all times. Since the virtual pilot has no down time (barring computer crashes) it would not need more than 1. Captain Dunsel can by definition be dispensed with by a virtual crew. So says M-5.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Virtual crew software specifically mentions ships, not small craft, ...

HG calls all craft "ships", e.g.:

HG'22, p10:
Decide on the total tonnage of the ship. The size of the hull affects the performance of the ship and, ultimately, limits what it can carry and achieve. A hull must be a minimum of five tons and jump-capable ships must be at least 100 tons.

HG'22, p19:


A craft with a 5 Dt hull is a "ship" for the purposes of HG.

 

[mavikfelna]

Yes, the bridge can be omitted if the entire crew can be automated by Virtual Crew (not any other automation).



That's irrelevant to the Virtual Crew rule. Whether the crew would normally be on the bridge or not, the entire required crew must be replaced by Virtual Crew alone to omit the bridge.

I don't think the rule implies that. It says it can be automated if the crew can be replaced, but that sentence is directly related to the previous sentence about replacing Pilots, Gunners and Sensor Operators. If you replace those positions, the ship can be an automated drone ship and no longer requires a bridge.

 

[mavikfelna]

HG calls all craft "ships", e.g.:

HG'22, p19:
View attachment 5637

A craft with a 5 Dt hull is a "ship" for the purposes of HG.

Yes, exactly what I'm saying. ANY ship can be automated, not just small craft, which is what you said.

And as an additional question, Virtual Crew is listed as only replacing Pilots, Gunners and Sensor Operators, HG p75. Is this list expanded anywhere? If you need to replace a Pilot and a Gunner, this implies that you do not need Virtual Gunner software for the Gunner. Is this countermanded anywhere?

Virtual Crew is written to automate smallcraft.{/quote]