New Babylon 5 novels ???
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Matt did pretty much what I would have done back in my days when I worked customer service (as a movie theater employee) when dealing with irate customers - keep your head, be polite, and try to answer their questions (complaints in my case) as best as possible, so if you ask me thats good customer service.
I was wondering where it was going to go when OS started the trolling and its was clear that he was going to take an antagonistic point of view no matter what answers Matt came up with.
I was wondering where it was going to go when OS started the trolling and its was clear that he was going to take an antagonistic point of view no matter what answers Matt came up with.
Morden said:
Couldn't agree more. The whole thing has been quite saddening to me, not because two sides have differing perspectives but because of the vitriol that has ensued from some in the fan community. I know those people are enthusiastic about B5; I hope they realise that they aren't the only ones. I haven't posted on rastb5m in several years - I thought about it yesterday but decided that keeping out of it was the best policy.
Perhaps I'm taking the whole thing too seriously, I don't know, but I can't agree with GOF's comment about catfighting. Sooner it is over, whichever way the dice lands, the better I think.
Chobbly
lastbesthope
Mongoose
msprange said:Morden said:
Yeah, my business partner keeps telling me that I should stop doing that
Just stick to yours and Alex's tried and tested method of dispute resolution, mud wrestling :lol:
I'm almost sorry to say I came to this discussion after it had all blkown over, but my impression of Omaha cub is that he was out to cause trouble. we have a few people like that on the boards so I know you have to go a fair way to have MSprange take action against you directly, which from Matthew's posts I take it he has.
LBH
Jal
Mongoose
i think we are dealing with two related... but seperate fan bases here;
Gaming Fans... and Babylon 5 Fans, there is a certain amount of crossover between the two but as with any such division there will be situations that cause them to come into conflict with each other, this appears to be one of those such occasions.
personally i`m a Babylon 5 Fan who plays a bit of B5 gaming and nothing else.... i say we give Sprange and JMS a couple of PPG`s and let them duke it out at 12 paces. :twisted:
Gaming Fans... and Babylon 5 Fans, there is a certain amount of crossover between the two but as with any such division there will be situations that cause them to come into conflict with each other, this appears to be one of those such occasions.
personally i`m a Babylon 5 Fan who plays a bit of B5 gaming and nothing else.... i say we give Sprange and JMS a couple of PPG`s and let them duke it out at 12 paces. :twisted:
Tanit Ironwolf
Mongoose
WEll I have not heard or read the IPOD interview. I think Matt dealt with Omaha in a pretty good manner. I don't know of any one who has hard feelings towards MAtt or Mongoose because of business dealings. WEll except JMS now. Yet JMS has a trail of them from cartoons, tv, and comics. I wonder if JMS is a little upset that Mongoose might be more successful with B5 than he was?? Not trying to start a flame war or anything. Just an uneducated in the business thought.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
I think it should be pointed out, for the sake of clarity, that Mongoose has already used the unfilmed Crusade scripts in the Crusade sourcebook. They must surely have done so legitimately and with the full knowledge of WB.
Wow. I leave for a while, and look what happens.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of guys. Yes, that was sarcasm.
Look... anyone what knows me, and has read my posts on this forum (from a long while back...) knows my feelings towards Mongoose. I think they are well-meaning, and decent fans. But they have very little regard (or perhaps time, or even talent) for quality control. The editing of their material is sub-par, to say the very least. When they have outright errors in thier books -- I am not talking about differences of opinion, but verifyable facts -- pointed out to them, they hem and haw and talk around the topic. They can even get insulting and twist the facts (I seem to recall one post on these boards where someone claimed that Mongoose had done everything by pat me on the back for all of the comments I had made; a strange way to characterize being told words to the effect of we are not going to fix it, so please stop complaining about it).
This is just another bullet in a long list of ways that Mongoose, for all of their good intentions, has not been a good steward of the license they were granted.
It was the reason I left these boards, sold all of my B5 stuff and refuse to purchase more. But this is not why I have chosen to post this. Here is why:
I think that Mongoose has been acting in good faith.
JMS is a man that loves a good debate. He may be upset, he may even have grounds for it. I don't know. I have no idea becasue I was not there when the discussions were made (or not made, as the case may be). Mr. Sprange and I have had our differences to be sure. We do not see the B5 universe the same way, we disagree on how it should be portrayed in the d20 system and in a starship combat game. But...
Nothing I have ever read, seen, or discussed with him or anyone else at Mongoose leads me to believe that they would do anything while believing that they were not following the rules as laid out before them.
Does this mean they they are right? No. Does this mean that they are wrong? No. It means that they were being ethical -- the right and wrong of it is for them, JMS, and Warner Brothers to decide.
In the mean time... buy Mongoose products, don't buy Mongoose products; ignore the whole thing -- all of these are well within your rights. But purposefully going out of your way to attempt to stir the s***-storm on this one is just not the right way to handle anything, I don't care who you think you are.
Mr. Sprange: good luck with this. I think you may be in over your head with someone like JMS -- he can hold a grudge, last time I checked. And regardless of his current relationship with WB, he pulls some weight. I just hope you come out of this alright.
Take care everyone.
KDL -- out.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of guys. Yes, that was sarcasm.
Look... anyone what knows me, and has read my posts on this forum (from a long while back...) knows my feelings towards Mongoose. I think they are well-meaning, and decent fans. But they have very little regard (or perhaps time, or even talent) for quality control. The editing of their material is sub-par, to say the very least. When they have outright errors in thier books -- I am not talking about differences of opinion, but verifyable facts -- pointed out to them, they hem and haw and talk around the topic. They can even get insulting and twist the facts (I seem to recall one post on these boards where someone claimed that Mongoose had done everything by pat me on the back for all of the comments I had made; a strange way to characterize being told words to the effect of we are not going to fix it, so please stop complaining about it).
This is just another bullet in a long list of ways that Mongoose, for all of their good intentions, has not been a good steward of the license they were granted.
It was the reason I left these boards, sold all of my B5 stuff and refuse to purchase more. But this is not why I have chosen to post this. Here is why:
I think that Mongoose has been acting in good faith.
JMS is a man that loves a good debate. He may be upset, he may even have grounds for it. I don't know. I have no idea becasue I was not there when the discussions were made (or not made, as the case may be). Mr. Sprange and I have had our differences to be sure. We do not see the B5 universe the same way, we disagree on how it should be portrayed in the d20 system and in a starship combat game. But...
Nothing I have ever read, seen, or discussed with him or anyone else at Mongoose leads me to believe that they would do anything while believing that they were not following the rules as laid out before them.
Does this mean they they are right? No. Does this mean that they are wrong? No. It means that they were being ethical -- the right and wrong of it is for them, JMS, and Warner Brothers to decide.
In the mean time... buy Mongoose products, don't buy Mongoose products; ignore the whole thing -- all of these are well within your rights. But purposefully going out of your way to attempt to stir the s***-storm on this one is just not the right way to handle anything, I don't care who you think you are.
Mr. Sprange: good luck with this. I think you may be in over your head with someone like JMS -- he can hold a grudge, last time I checked. And regardless of his current relationship with WB, he pulls some weight. I just hope you come out of this alright.
Take care everyone.
KDL -- out.
wargame_insomniac
Mongoose
I might disagree with some of the way that Mongoose have developed B5 ACTA/RPG (in particular the mass of different ACTA fleet lists), I might dislike the new Drakh minatures for ACTA, I might disagree with the way that they have limited the RPG level advancement to only 10 levels thus making it almost obligatory to multi-class.msprange said:
But when I expressed these disgreements to Matthew Sprange in person he answered my queries politely an concisely, explained that Mongoose had listened to similar feedback to what I was telling him and that moreover what actions they were taking to improve their games after they had listened to the customers.
I can't understand such a vehement criticism of Mongoose in general and Matt in particular and suspect that some ulterior motive here.
Matt- hang in there- most of your customers appreciate your efforts.
Cheers
James
Jal
Mongoose
wargame_insomniac said:
his only motivation is that he is a long term JMS/Babylon 5 fan and not a follower of gaming...... when the two come into conflict a little friction (or some flaming) is not that unexpected.
for me it`s always been B5 first and gaming second, this does lead me to criticise their output if i find fault with it... that`s just the way it is. :|
Greg Smith
Mongoose
God of Frustration said:
There seems to be a kind of cult-like following of JMS, where his words are gospel-truth and anything that he does wrong or anything that he creates that is below par is all the fault of 'the network' [cue Omen music]. Also anyone other than JMS (or his chosen disciple Fiona) who dares create any work based on the sacred B5 gospel will find their creation automatically decanonised - even if JMS gave his holy blessing to that work.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
God of Frustration said:
Yeah, I can be guilty of the latter.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
I personally don't see why anyone gets so worked up about the RPG not necessarily being an exact match to established canon, you don't like the fluff or mechanics, change it at the GM's discretion.
More and more I see my favourite works being trashed by the creators far more effectively than any fan produced work.
LBH
More and more I see my favourite works being trashed by the creators far more effectively than any fan produced work.
LBH
BabylonRebel
Mongoose
What's happening with the books? looks like their now only releasing three and have pushed their dates back to late 2006/early 2007.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Cool, Darrin's writing one!
LBH
LBH
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