Imperial Navy Ship and Shipyard Sizes

[Terry Mixon]

292 Shipyards of varying sizes.

Since I had the spreadsheet already set up, I had it tell me the numbers after refining the population as per the World Builder's Handbook. I did not tally any builds for government types 6 & 7 as I don't believe they would be capable of such. I capped the population on A pop worlds at 10,000,000,000.

Class A (all jump-capable ships (including capital ships),spacecraft, and small craft): 99,249,078 dtons. As discussed earlier, 39,500,000 dtons of that are on Mora, Trin, Glisten, and Rhylanor. As those four systems are the only TL-15 shipbuilders, that means the remaining 59,749,078 dtons are TL-12 builds.

Class B (spacecraft and small craft, no jump-capable builds): 48,714,023 dtons.

Class C (small craft only, no jump-capable builds): 49,853,970 dtons.

That all adds up to: 197,817,071 dtons of shipbuilding capacity for the Spinward Marches in peacetime.

 

[Micky]

I imported the Spinward Marches sector data to a spreadsheet and ran it. Of the 439 systems, A=54, B=116, C=122, D=40, E=93, and X=14.

sounds like a lot and it is.. but still only a fraction as that counts only the main system starport. Many systems have multiple worlds, and likely multiple Imperial starports. Doesn't even get into system, non imperial starports owned and operated by privates (like Megacorporation shipyards) or planetary governments.

 

[Terry Mixon]

sounds like a lot and it is.. but still only a fraction as that counts only the main system starport. Many systems have multiple worlds, and likely multiple Imperial starports. Doesn't even get into system, non imperial starports owned and operated by privates (like Megacorporation shipyards) or planetary governments.

True, but we have to work with what we have. I revised it down because I capped the population on A pop worlds at 10,000,000,000. The post now reflects that.

The population in the Spinward Marches by my calculations: 277,367,427,180.

 

[Condottiere]

It seems to me, that actual naval tonnage doesn't live up to potential production.

And I suspect, neither does commercial.

 

[Terry Mixon]

It seems to me, that actual naval tonnage doesn't live up to potential production.

And I suspect, neither does commercial.

Likely not. Capacity is potential. The orders determine the actual.

 

[Condottiere]

At that point, corporate consolidation.

 

[Terry Mixon]

sounds like a lot and it is.. but still only a fraction as that counts only the main system starport. Many systems have multiple worlds, and likely multiple Imperial starports. Doesn't even get into system, non imperial starports owned and operated by privates (like Megacorporation shipyards) or planetary governments.

What do you think? The untallied shipyards make 10 times the official ones? Less? More?

 

[Micky]

True, but we have to work with what we have. I revised it down because I capped the population on A pop worlds at 10,000,000,000. The post now reflects that.

The population in the Spinward Marches by my calculations: 277,367,427,180.

true but what are those worlds.. usually the main trade/commercial hubs for those systems. Just because you can build a ship in a class A orbiting a prime economic driver doesn't mean you have to or will. Any room at a starport given over to ship construction would less space you can berth commercial ships and that is what drives SPA run starports. Trade. You could easily, using common sense, go with most ship construction over 1000 tons would go down at Class A or B in dedicated shipbuilding facilities. Probably owned by shipbuildiing corporations. Probably on a satellite or minor system world that doesn't have the travel, trade and commerce flowing through it that the main system starports would.

 

[Geir]

What do you think? The untallied shipyards make 10 times the official ones? Less? More?

I based the WBH shipyard numbers on population, so it was at least intended to represent the capacity of a world (you know, in case it ever became important for a Pocket Empire or World Tamers sort of book... set in.. I dunno 1400 Reaver's Deep?)

 

[Micky]

What do you think? The untallied shipyards make 10 times the official ones? Less? More?

my opinion??? Less... I'd go 5 as a general rule. Only take a few systems where there are only 1 or 2 settled planets to drag the average down.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I based the WBH shipyard numbers on population, so it was at least intended to represent the capacity of a world (you know, in case it ever became important for a Pocket Empire or World Tamers sort of book... set in.. I dunno 1400 Reaver's Deep?)

So, that would mean the WBH numbers are for all shipyards there? Dammit. I'm so math challenged and now I have to figure out all those numbers! ARRGGGHHHH!!!!!

I refuse. Not gonna do it. These numbers are good enough for me. There needs to be a spreadsheet to figure all those numbers out. Seriously.

 

[Micky]

So, that would mean the WBH numbers are for all shipyards there? Dammit. I'm so math challenged and now I have to figure out all those numbers! ARRGGGHHHH!!!!!

all starports?? yeah break out your computer or your T.I. .. but only class A and B can build ships so that will narrow your totals down... a bit. Outside the main system starports.. probably only the larger higher population worlds might have class A or B as general Imperial starports. Locally non-Imperium run ones perhaps for big mining operations as system colonies of the mother planet. The rest.. sprinkle them as you like as like probably as dedicated shipyards owned by the Megacorps that are building them. Out spinward way? You'll have some but probably not that many, not like the Core sectors would with their thousands of years of settlement and infrastruction. Much easier to do the Spinward than say.. ummm.. Vland and its like 11,000 years of continuous settlement and expansion where pretty much every suitable and more than few barely suitable one are all settled.

 

[Vormaerin]

Generally speaking, the rules assume there is *one* Imperial Starport that aggregates all the Imperial managed facilities in a system. Secondary worlds have "spaceports" and those can have shipyards, but only if the secondary world has at least a pop of 6 to get the necessary DRM.

The biggest problem with calculations of capacity is that no one builds capacity unless there is demand. The US, for instance, has about 2/3 of its potential shipbuilding capacity used only for repair yards and the like. Shipyards that could theoretically build ships, but don't. And, frankly, no longer have the trained workforce to do so.

We have no way to calculate demand and using systems like TCS that assume the world in question is in a militarized state (since its set up for wargaming) is a bad resource for what would be there under more normal circumstances. It is safe to say that whatever value we come up with for "capacity" will be far in excessive of actual usage.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Generally speaking, the rules assume there is *one* Imperial Starport that aggregates all the Imperial managed facilities in a system. Secondary worlds have "spaceports" and those can have shipyards, but only if the secondary world has at least a pop of 6 to get the necessary DRM.

The biggest problem with calculations of capacity is that no one builds capacity unless there is demand. The US, for instance, has about 2/3 of its potential shipbuilding capacity used only for repair yards and the like. Shipyards that could theoretically build ships, but don't. And, frankly, no longer have the trained workforce to do so.

We have no way to calculate demand and using systems like TCS that assume the world in question is in a militarized state (since its set up for wargaming) is a bad resource for what would be there under more normal circumstances. It is safe to say that whatever value we come up with for "capacity" will be far in excessive of actual usage.

I can accept that logic. For my purposes, having unused capacity can factor into what I'm doing.

 

[MasterGwydion]

true but what are those worlds.. usually the main trade/commercial hubs for those systems. Just because you can build a ship in a class A orbiting a prime economic driver doesn't mean you have to or will. Any room at a starport given over to ship construction would less space you can berth commercial ships and that is what drives SPA run starports. Trade. You could easily, using common sense, go with most ship construction over 1000 tons would go down at Class A or B in dedicated shipbuilding facilities. Probably owned by shipbuildiing corporations. Probably on a satellite or minor system world that doesn't have the travel, trade and commerce flowing through it that the main system starports would.

The Shipyard is a huge moneymaker for the Starport. They are making more money because of it, not losing money due to less docking space.

GURPS Starports page 9

"Major Imperial starports possess shipyards. These produce huge revenue streams, but the shipyard was a huge expense to begin with. Generally, Class B ports – limited to the non-starship trade –do well to service shipyard debt with their revenues. Class A shipyards, with a larger customer base, often produce tidy profits. Shipyards are open to private interests, unless under emergency naval control."

 

[MasterGwydion]

all starports?? yeah break out your computer or your T.I. .. but only class A and B can build ships so that will narrow your totals down... a bit. Outside the main system starports.. probably only the larger higher population worlds might have class A or B as general Imperial starports. Locally non-Imperium run ones perhaps for big mining operations as system colonies of the mother planet. The rest.. sprinkle them as you like as like probably as dedicated shipyards owned by the Megacorps that are building them. Out spinward way? You'll have some but probably not that many, not like the Core sectors would with their thousands of years of settlement and infrastruction. Much easier to do the Spinward than say.. ummm.. Vland and its like 11,000 years of continuous settlement and expansion where pretty much every suitable and more than few barely suitable one are all settled.

Read HG, page 69. to be a Class-C Starport, there must be a shipyard of at least 200-ton capacity. Class-B minimum 10,000-tons. Class-A, minimum 25,000-tons. Shipyards at spaceports are incredibly rare. Also, all Starports in the Imperium are run by the SPA. Do you guys not read the books? Spaceports can be private, but not Starports. Starports are all Imperial Territory, not owned by the planet that they are on, nor by megacorps.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Read HG, page 69. to be a Class-C Starport, there must be a shipyard of at least 200-ton capacity. Class-B minimum 10,000-tons. Class-A, minimum 25,000-tons. Shipyards at spaceports are incredibly rare. Also, all Starports in the Imperium are run by the SPA. Do you guys not read the books? Spaceports can be private, but not Starports. Starports are all Imperial Territory, not owned by the planet that they are on, nor by megacorps.

Ling Standard owns a major yard in Glisten that isn’t part of the Starport. Would it be called something else? I can see private yards attached to what could under other circumstances be a starport in a big system.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Ling Standard owns a major yard in Glisten that isn’t part of the Starport. Would it be called something else? I can see private yards attached to what could under other circumstances be a starport in a big system.

It is part of the Starport. Glisten is an asteroid belt.

"The words “highport” and “lowport” don’t apply to Glisten. Instead of the usual paring of a large planetary base and orbital station, the subsector capital’s starport is a cluster of asteroids. Such a port is known as a "beltport". This allows it to be just as large as any other class A lowport, yet still be able to service starships that lack landing capabilities.

Among the installations there is an enormous yard owned and operated by Ling-Standard Products as well as smaller and more specialized shipbuilders such as Bilstein Yards.

Glisten's naval base is the home port of the subsector fleet. The immediate region around the base is a restricted area and is heavily patrolled, with sensor outposts constructed on a number of asteroids to give better coverage. It is also has an extensive scout base, which is located near the primary starport. In addition to a huge fleet of cutters dedicated to the ongoing effort to chart and catalogue every asteroid in the belts, the base is home to the usual flotilla of communications and exploration vessels."

Glisten (world) - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

 

[Terry Mixon]

It is part of the Starport. Glisten is an asteroid belt.

"The words “highport” and “lowport” don’t apply to Glisten. Instead of the usual paring of a large planetary base and orbital station, the subsector capital’s starport is a cluster of asteroids. Such a port is known as a "beltport". This allows it to be just as large as any other class A lowport, yet still be able to service starships that lack landing capabilities.

Among the installations there is an enormous yard owned and operated by Ling-Standard Products as well as smaller and more specialized shipbuilders such as Bilstein Yards.

Glisten's naval base is the home port of the subsector fleet. The immediate region around the base is a restricted area and is heavily patrolled, with sensor outposts constructed on a number of asteroids to give better coverage. It is also has an extensive scout base, which is located near the primary starport. In addition to a huge fleet of cutters dedicated to the ongoing effort to chart and catalogue every asteroid in the belts, the base is home to the usual flotilla of communications and exploration vessels."

Glisten (world) - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

As you quoted the book, "all Starports in the Imperium are run by the SPA", the distinction I was making is that I don't believe the SPA would be in charge of the Ling-Standard yard. So, there could be other yards that are privately owned and operated.

 

[MasterGwydion]

As you quoted the book, "all Starports in the Imperium are run by the SPA", the distinction I was making is that I don't believe the SPA would be in charge of the Ling-Standard yard. So, there could be other yards that are privately owned and operated.

Ling rents the space from the SPA on a long-term lease would be My guess, based on the writings.