Imperial Marine and Army Unit Composition

[Terry Mixon]

As I build ships and occasionally assign marines to them, it occurs to me that I am either making things up or using US military numbers. Are there any Mongoose breakdowns of unit compositions (squad, platoon, company, etc) to work with? Lacking that (which I kind of expect) is there another source from previous Traveller iterations?

 

[Arkathan]

Pg 24, Third Imperium. It at least gives sizes of units. That's army, but there is no reason you cannot apply it to marine units to get numbers.
Pg 21 has two unit sizes... they are large.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Pg 24, Third Imperium. It at least gives sizes of units. That's army, but there is no reason you cannot apply it to marine units to get numbers.
Pg 21 has two unit sizes... they are large.

Thanks.

 

[Ewan]

The Institute for Conflict Studies Papers: The Fifth Frontier War gives an excellent detailed TOE of The 4518th Lift Infantry however please note the was a JTAS kickstarter exclusive.
Also have a look at https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/products/mercenary-box-set-1 and https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/products/specialist-forces
Hope this helps

 

[Terry Mixon]

The Institute for Conflict Studies Papers: The Fifth Frontier War gives an excellent detailed TOE of The 4518th Lift Infantry however please note the was a JTAS kickstarter exclusive.
Also have a look at https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/products/mercenary-box-set-1 and https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/products/specialist-forces
Hope this helps

Thanks. I have that, too. I’ll check it out.

 

[Arkathan]

The Fifth Frontier War has some battlegroup breakdowns for each faction, spread throughout.

 

[Arkathan]

Mercenary Book 1, pg 50-55 has info on requirements for transporting various sizes of smaller units (up to company)
Scale as needed with additional companies.

 

[Jame Rowe]

Mercenary Book 1, pg 50-55 has info on requirements for transporting various sizes of smaller units (up to company)
Scale as needed with additional companies.

This is something I'd love in a revised Mercenary box.
And other logistics stuff like that.

 

[Terry Mixon]

The two charts with concrete numbers at least give me ranges to work with. Thanks.

 

[collins355]

Yes, the "Space Required" charts on pages 53-54 of Mercenary Book 1 are one of the more useful things in that entire boxed set. Do note, however, the caveat that is explained on page 52 that these are just sizes of unit essentially plucked out of the air ("typical" sizes like 35 personnel for a platoon with "average" equipment).

MGT/JTAS No.2 has a breakdown of the 4518th Regiment on page 43.

MGT/JTAS No.3 has Zhodani military organisations from page 112.

MGT/JTAS No.4 has Imperial Marine unit organisations from page 69.

The chart on page 24 of MGT/Third Imperium sets out what it says are typical unit sizes for various army units. On page 21 it says that Imperial Marine sub-units are the same sizes except the squad is called a section. It says the Marines are organised in regiments of 3500 personnel or MEFs (more "yanks in space" rubbish! :-( , sorry) of 2000 for lift infantry troops. Page 32 has details of lift infantry regiments and huscarles, and for more details it refers you back to the JTAS No.2 article mentioned above.

MGT/Fifth Frontier War has slightly different information. Imperial Ground Forces are detailed starting page 34. For example, contrary to Third Imperium information, it states, "a battalion is the largest marine force likely to be deployed" (I'm not sure what happened to the MEFs). It also goes with Doug Berry's controversial "Unified Armies of the Imperium" concept.
Zhodani ground forces are explained from page 66. Here we have the since-debunked by MongooseMatt "Special Naval Landing Force" introduced. So if you weren't aware be aware that concept has been withdrawn.
Darrian ground forces are from page 76. As far as I'm aware, this is the only place in Traveller canon that Darrian ground combat units have ever been laid out, so quite a valuable piece.
Sword Worlds ground forces are from page 90. This doesn't entirely match earlier descriptions in MGT/Sword Worlds, etc, but there you are. Also, the pernicious "Special Naval Landing Force" concept makes an appearance (obviously a favourite of the author!) with the claim that Sword Worlds also uses this unit type.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Looking at the data, I think I'll just stick with the handwave I had been using for shipboard units as it fits pretty closely with what is listed.

1 fireteam = 4 marines
1 squad = 3 fireteams + 1 officer = 13 marines
1 platoon = 3 squads + 1 noncom + 1 officer = 41 marines
1 company = 3 platoons + 1 noncom + 1 officer = 125 marines

Bigger than that is over what I was needing. I know there are variances and lift marines will need equipment and differing makeup of personnel, but for general use, this works for me.

 

[collins355]

Okay, although this is what is said in MGT/JTAS No.4 about Marine squads...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Okay, although this is what is said in MGT/JTAS No.4 about Marine squads...
View attachment 3038

Two fireteams seem too few, honestly. My brain likes three better.

 

[collins355]

Two fireteams seem too few, honestly. My brain likes three better.

Sure, although the purpose of this entire thread escapes me. No problem if you're going to do your own thing, but why ask for us to refer you to MGT material in that case?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Sure, although the purpose of this entire thread escapes me. No problem if you're going to do your own thing, but why ask for us to refer you to MGT material in that case?

I did want the pointers to the official references, and I do want opinions, but I'm free about sharing my thoughts in return. Thank you for both.

 

[ottarrus]

Back before WWI, the US and Royal Marines would organize detachment based on the number of bunks available.
If a ship had 12 racks and one officer cabin, the Marine detachment was one officer, one sergeant, and 11 other ranks.
This was because no two ships were ever exactly alike... captains were authorized to make changes to internal arrangement of their vessel to suit their own style. They'd move bulkheads around, rearrange berthing spaces, all kind of stuff.

However, I do think that Traveller ship plans are more modern and uniform, especially on transports designed to carry troops.

 

[Condottiere]

My feeling is that organization varies, based on the expected mission.

I'd say that the Imperium Marines is based something suitable for medium mounted infantry for the planetary assault units, and something more distributed for onboard ship contingent

 

[Terry Mixon]

I feel like I need to add this. I asked for canon references and thank you to everyone that provided them. The ones with details were more a range of possibilities than concrete numbers, so I considered them before deciding the handwave based on what I was roughly familiar with as an Army veteran was actually feasible for Imperial times.

That doesn’t mean I didn’t like and appreciate the canon references. They were helpful, but more a range than specifics. That’s understandable, but as I was trying to gauge how many marines to assign to ships, it wasn’t as helpful as I’d hoped.

Also, I do appreciate the countervailing opinions to the decision I made. In the mixing of ideas comes things that were not considered. Just because I made a decision doesn’t mean it was the best choice. I’m always open to hearing what others think.

So, thanks for the canon references and the time you all took to locate and share them. Also, thanks for your views. They help, too. I appreciate them all.