Imperial Army

[AnotherDilbert]

Battalion Assault Carrier.
No Assault Landers, just 20 assorted 50 Dt small craft with a Launch Tube.

AC-K6636J3-099900-99000-2      MCr 9 053      15 000 Dton    Ag=3
AC-L6424J3-099900-99000-2      MCr 9 053      24 000 Dton
bearing     A     11                             Crew=164
batteries   A     11                                TL=15
         Cargo=6517 Fuel=1560 EP=960 Agility=2 DropT=9000

Dual Occupancy                                    6 518    11 118
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             K         15 000        
Configuration       Flattened Sphe     6                    1 200
Scoops              Streamlined                                15
                                                               
Drop Tanks          9 000 Dton                                  9
Total tonnage       24 000 Dton                                
                                                               
Jump Drive                             4    1     1 200     4 800
Manoeuvre D                            2    1     1 200       840
Power Plant                            4    1       960     2 880
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-4, 4 weeks            4       960        
Purifier                                    1       158         2
                                                               
Bridge                                      1       300        75
Computer            m/9fib             J    1        26       200
                                                               
Staterooms                                  5        20         3
Staterooms, Half                          159       318        40
                                                               
Cargo                                             6 518        
Demountable Tanks   J-4                     1       600         1
                                                               
Triple Turret 10/ba Beam               9    1        10        30    10 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Double Turret 10/ba Fusion             9    1        20        40    10 turrets organised into 1 battery.
Triple Turret 10/ba Sand               9   10       100        75    100 mounts organised into 10 batteries.
                                                               
Nuclear Damper                         9    1        20        50
Meson Screen                           9    1        40        60
                                                               
Troop Transport     50 Dton                10       650       129
Heavy Fighter       50 Dton                 5       325       527
Cutter              50 Dton                 5       325       141
Launch Tube         50 Dton                 1     1 250         3
                                                               
Nominal Cost        MCr 11 118,19        Sum:     6 518    11 118
Class Cost          MCr  2 167,94       Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr  9 053,48                              
                                                               
                                                               
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge    10
Passengers            Mid     0         164       Engineers    34
                      Low     0                     Gunners    24
                 Extra SR     0      Frozen         Service    45
               # Frozen W     0           0          Flight    51
                  Marines     0                     Marines     0

Platoon Lander:
Standard Imperial 50 Dt.
Fast, well armoured, light weapons, not space combat capable.
25 Dt payload, up to 50 troops or two AFVs

AL-0106801-F30000-20002-0       MCr 32,2          50 Dton
bearing     1     1   1                            Crew=2
batteries   1     1   1                             TL=15
                           Cargo=25 Fuel=1 EP=4 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                     25,5      40,2
                                     USP    #     Dton       Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             0           50           
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                      6 
Armour              15                 F            8        14,4
                                                                
Manoeuvre D                            6    1       8,5       4,3
Power Plant                            8    1       4        12 
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-0, 1 weeks                    1           
                                                                
Bridge                                                           
Computer            m/1                0    1       1         2 
                                                                
Couch                                       2       1         0,1
                                                                
Cargo                                              25,5         
                                                                
Mixed Turret        Full                    1       1           
  Weapon            Missile            2    1                 0,8
  Weapon            Pulse              2    1                 0,5
  Weapon            Sand               3    1                 0,3
                                                                
Nominal Cost        MCr 40,20            Sum:      25,5      40,2
Class Cost          MCr  8,44           Valid      ≥0          ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 32,16                                   
                                                                
                                                                
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     0           2       Engineers     0
                      Low     0                     Gunners     1

 

[Condottiere]

 

[ottarrus]

AD, this is good info in regards to getting an Army from its duty station to the deployment area. I agree that the IN isn't going to use desperately needed TL-15 slipways to construct troop transports. They're FAR more likely to convert an older cruiser or modify a mega-freighter to the task. Where I depart from the narrative is I don't see troops landing in capital ship sized landers that disgorge a complete brigade at a time.

IMTU, the initial landings don't occur until planetary defenses are suppressed. At that point, intell selects an LZ that is close to the strategic objectives but has the most penetrable defenses. Planners realize that casualties will happen and will likely be high, but the goal is to establish a sustainable landing zone that can be expanded. That doesn't happen in huge ships. That happens in landing barges that land half-companies at a time. This reduces casualties because enemy gunners have more targets to suppress.

 

[ottarrus]

Except that the only women in an O-Club are wives and women who want to be wives. Oh, and also senior officers who will take VERY dim view of a couple of part-timer jet jockeys rubbing up on their daughters.
The wise young man looking for entertainment takes his party off post and considers the O-club to be more of a 'supervised play date' situation.
There is an old Army saying... "Keep your indiscretions 100 miles from the flagpole."

 

[Condottiere]

As explained to me, you penetrate the outer defences, and unload on the troop transports, despite possible unequal losses.

The strategic goal being to prevent any landing, as further reinforcements, or to be more precise, replacements, would have to be found, and/or trained, and then deployed.

The transports are purposefully there, and know what to expect.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Where I depart from the narrative is I don't see troops landing in capital ship sized landers that disgorge a complete brigade at a time.

I would generally agree, but there was some talk about landing with screens to protect the LZ, and something like 1000 Dt is the smallest that will do that effectively.

The Assault Carrier or Transport will of course not go anywhere it will be shot at.

 

[Sigtrygg]

On a TL15 battlefield a meson screen is a must have at a staging area.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

On a TL15 battlefield a meson screen is a must have at a staging area.

A minimal meson screen with minimal computer support can be done in a ~50 Dt small craft or cutter module. No protection from spinals or even warship bays, but perhaps enough against meson artillery?

Dampers can be done in Striker vehicles.


1000 Dt landers are much harder to kill.

 

[collins355]

Agreed, mostly.
FFW counters (the second number is TL):
View attachment 1791





Colonial units are not so lucky:
View attachment 1792

Yes, although the game setup rules have the prewar Imperial Army deployment being only the 4 TL15 brigades and the 4 TL14/15 regiments. Plus a corps on Efate, but we know from the TNS posts that this is a rapidly cobbled together unit to deal with the escalating insurgency on that world.

So it seems standing division plus sized Imperial Army units are rare in the Spinward Marches in peacetime.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A full screen can be done under 200 Dt, stops bays and low-tech or low-factor spinals.

LE-1106G91-F09000-25000-0        MCr 306         170 Dton
bearing           11                               Crew=6
batteries         11                                TL=15
                     Cargo=1 Fuel=28,2 EP=28,26 Agility=6

Dual Occupancy                                        1       383
                                     USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull, Streamlined   Custom             1            170         
Configuration       Needle/Wedge       1                       20
Scoops              Streamlined                                 0
Armour              15                 F             27        49
                                                                
Manoeuvre D         F                  6    1        11        24
Power Plant                           16    1        28        85
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-0, 4 weeks                     28         
Purifier                                    1         3         0
                                                                
Bridge                                                           
Computer            m/9                9    1        13       140
                                                                
Staterooms                                  2         8         1
Staterooms, Half                            4         8         1
                                                                
Cargo                                                 1         
                                                                
Mixed Turret        Full                    1         2         
  Weapon            Fusion             5    1                   2
  Weapon            Pulse              2    1                   1
                                                                
Meson Screen                           9    1        40        60
                                                                
Nominal Cost        MCr 382,84           Sum:         1       383
Class Cost          MCr  80,40          Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost           MCr 306,27                                   
                                                                
                                                                
Crew &               High     0        Crew          Bridge     1
Passengers            Mid     0           6       Engineers     0
                      Low     0                     Gunners     5

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So it seems standing division plus sized Imperial Army units are rare in the Spinward Marches in peacetime.

As always? How many combat-ready army divisions are stationed in one place in the US? I can't imagine there are any in Europe, at best some rapid-reaction brigades (if even that).

It took quite a few months to assemble the Kuwait and Iraq invasion forces, even if it was theoretically just a week or two away on ship.

 

[ottarrus]

@AnotherDilbert I appreciate the Auld Skool High Guard stuff, Mongoose's rendition of the 5FW is written with their High Guard rules.
And something else I want to caution everyone about is that MWM has said over and over again that GDW wargames do not depict the units deployed or the results of the war in the OTU.
Just putting that out there as a reminder.

 

[ottarrus]

As always? How many combat-ready army divisions are stationed in one place in the US? I can't imagine there are any in Europe, at best some rapid-reaction brigades (if even that).

It took quite a few months to assemble the Kuwait and Iraq invasion forces, even if it was theoretically just a week or two away on ship.

No division in any Army is war-ready in their garrison positions. Unless there was a war warning prior, it takes a minimum of a week to get a heavy division [that is, a division with tanks, APCs, and other heavy gear] into a transportable state. Both the US 82nd Abn and 101st AirAslt Divisions maintain a 'ready brigade' that can deploy in a very short time. But let's be clear... these are speedbump units. Unless they have massive Air Force and Naval support, they stand no chance of squaring off with a combined arms division of bad guys. Well... unless they're Russians. THOSE clowns invaded the Ukraine in a manner that can only be described as 'criminally incompetent'.
In order to assemble a proper defense in the zone of conflict, it takes NATO or the US about a week or 10 days.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

@AnotherDilbert I appreciate the Auld Skool High Guard stuff, Mongoose's rendition of the 5FW is written with their High Guard rules.

Oops, sorry, wrong forum and wrong spreadsheet...

 

[ottarrus]

As for Imperial Army deployments, the Zhos didn't catch the Army on their back foot, they caught the Army with both boots off!
It's reasonable to assume that any Imperial Army headquarters will have a Naval Liaison Office that handles transportation and support. This in turn means that the Army will get the alert just as soon as the Navy does.
Generically speaking the following steps will be taken:
1. The courier ship bearing the message will arrive and the message-handling system kicked in. Obviously, the messenger isn't gonna blare "WAR!" on all commo channels. That just leads to panic. Military and political leaders will be notified first.
2. The overall commander of the area, most probably a Naval officer, will check the war plans [of which he has filing cabinets and server farms full of] to see which one he's ordered to activate.
3. Subordinate commands [of all Imperial Armed Forces, including IISS and IMOJ] are then notified with their instructions.
4. Commo channels will be hot as all off-post personnel are told to grab their 'Go bag' and get to post immediately.

Now here's the part where this litany departs from my personal experience. When I served the US had plans to evacuate dependents families from Europe [in my era, you couldn't bring family to Korea or Turkey -- Europe, Korea, and Turkey were the three biggest Army overseas commands]. Given the time factors in the Third Imperium, that would impossible. Therefore, I suggest that in long established bases, bunkers /fallout shelters might be built for family members to evacuate to. But that's really an IYTU decision.

5. Once all troops report and are accounted for everyone gets to work getting the unit ready to ship out. For obvious reasons, these preparations will be more frantic in Navy and Marine units because they'll be shipping out first. OTOH, the Army is both less ready to ship out and has a metric crap-load of gear to prepare.
6. Security of all kinds is turned up to 11 because the Ine Givar will have operations ongoing and everybody will have visions of teleporting commandos running through their heads. Most of this security will actually impede the process of deploying units effectively, but it'll make everybody feel better. Unless you're tall, swarthy, and dark-haired...
7. Once the Sector Admiral and Marshal agree on a plan, units will be notified and an estimated timetable for shipment to the operational zone issued.
8. For the Army, it could be MONTHS before an Opplan is given to the division commanders. That time will be spent at the range, in the field, or in the motor pool. Everyone will start pulling 16 hour days immediately as weapons, armors, vehicles and other equipment is checked and rechecked. Adminis-trivia will be gone over again and again ["Sergeant, are you sure you want to leave your death benefits to a person you only met a month ago?"]
9. The transport Task Force will arrive in system at some point and the troops will begin the embarkation process.
10. Only when they are aboard will most of the troops find out about their destination and mission.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

No division in any Army is war-ready in their garrison positions. Unless there was a war warning prior, it takes a minimum of a week to get a heavy division [that is, a division with tanks, APCs, and other heavy gear] into a transportable state.

Quite, so it's hardly surprising that even the Imperium takes a few months to assemble and space-lift an army into position?

 

[Condottiere]

Forward deployed army units should be semi ready, acting as tripwire, garrison, and/or deterrence.

I'd say jump troops would be rapid deployment, at least, armywise, though not necessarily deployed that way.

 

[ottarrus]

Forward deployed army units should be semi ready, acting as tripwire, garrison, and/or deterrence.

I'd say jump troops would be rapid deployment, at least, armywise, though not necessarily deployed that way.

Oh, certainly.
The Unified Armies of Glisten were NOT taken wholly by surprise. Units out in exercises would be pretty eff'd though. They'd get fed into the LZ defense immediately with just enough time to load their weapons with war shots... but NOT enough time to repair the wear and tear that occurs to everything [men and vehicles both] when you've been out in the boonies for a week.

 

[Condottiere]

Vehicles has a greater depreciation and maintenance rate than spacecraft.

 

[ottarrus]

Vehicles has a greater depreciation and maintenance rate than spacecraft.

Well, starships aren't driven by E3s who give exactly zero eff's Seriously, I've SEEN a PFC drive a tank... DeathRace ain't got nuthin' on these guys.
OK, jokes aside, most US Army vehicles [tracked, wheeled, or flown] have a tiered system of maintenance. Tier one is Operator level maintenance, mostly preventative 'check the oil' stuff. Tier Two is bringing in the school-trained trained mechanics. Tier Three is battalion and above maintenance. Tier Four is 'strip it down to the armor plates and completely rebuild it'.
At the Tier 1 level, that all happens with a private or Specialist who really doesn't give a crap about his vehicle. The job gets done, but the troopie knows that 'the motor daddy will fix it' if anything goes seriously wrong. Tier 2 does a lot of major maintenance... pulling complete engine-transmission packages entirely out of the vehicle for example. The vehicle crew will often assist with that, doing the grunt work and lifting. Tier 3 really requires the pros from Dover. There's a lot of E7s and E8s in the US Army that know more about a diesel or aviation engine than the guy that designed it. The battalion motor sergeant [aka 'motor daddy'] is responsible for fixing everything in the battalion that moves but doesn't have feet and almost every officer in the battalion will take his opinion about a repair like it's the Gospel According to Rudolf Diesel. Tier 4, the vehicle goes back to depot and stripped down to its constituent molecules and reassembled to a like-new condition.