Games workshop

[Lonestar]

Whoa, lets not paint an entire program with a broad brush. You may have had a bad experience with a PG'er, but to conclude the program is not well run is grossly unfair. In fact the Press Gang is well organized and supported.
I have been involved with many such programs, and every one of them, including the Press Gang, provides guidelines that include NOT bashing any other product.
I'm sorry that you encountered a spoiled apple and guarantee that not everyone in the program conducts themselves in that fashion.

I know, the Australian system, is not run by PP. I was an international PGer in Hong Kong, and I know of the guidelines you speak of, and know of the great job PP has done internationally.

I thought I said it was Australia, and not the rest of the world, please dont read to much into it. And while the PP runs a tight boat, unfortunatly the OZZIES answer to them selves, and not to PP.

 

[Bobby Hostile]

I thought I said it was Australia, and not the rest of the world, please dont read to much into it. And while the PP runs a tight boat, unfortunatly the OZZIES answer to them selves, and not to PP.

I too am sorry your PGr's are causing some headaches dude. That type of behavior is NOT condoned by PPS and if it's hurting the game, perhaps you should email PPS_Duncan to discuss your concerns. He's the PG Quartermaster. The Austrailian PGs DO answer to him.

I'm a long time Press Ganger for PPS and my town is very much neck deep in GW. At a Con, I was right next to the GW rep, who is a good friend of mine. Some guy asked me which was the better game, Warmachine or Fantasy? My reply? "Which ever one you enjoy the most."

I play 40k, Mordheim and Necromunda (when I get a chance). While not a fan of GW's price increases, I do not dislike the company. Hating a corporate entity is futile. Instead, I spend my money on what I like and do not buy what doesn't suit my gaming desires. Nobody has forced me to buy GW products, nor has GW disrupted my life, so I can't take what they do personally.

I don't think GW is going to be toppeled by the release of SST either. However, I do think that they will "feel" it. Up until about 2 years ago, GW had almost zero competition. If you wanted to find a Miniature game that you could play in just about any city in any developed nation, 40k or Fantasy was it.

Now however, there are more choices. Warmachine, Confrontation and Starship Troopers are all doing well, or in the case of SST, predicted to do well. Add in some discontent over continued price increases. This combination of events is what I think will hurt GW. Will it fall? No, and I hope it doesn't. GW games range from fair (BFG) to Good (Fantasy) and everything in between.

The advantage WM and SST have is the low "Start up" cost to get in to the game compared to the Core GW games (WHFB and 40K). Lets also admit that Confrontation has some amazing models in it, while individually they are more expensive.

So, while I do believe that SST will draw dissatisfied GW players away, so will Confrontation and WM. Enough to drive the Corporation to ruins? I really doubt it.

Further, someone above had a valid point. When the SST fans start to arrive, do they want to be greeted with "GW SuXors!" or would they rather see "I figured out how to kill 6 bugs at once with the Trench Sweeper Laser!"

Just to show what a fan I am of the unreleased game, I contemplated joining the MI and staying a PG, to demo both games at once. However, I choose not to, in case someone in my area wished to be an MI. I will do anything and everything I can to promote the game unofficially though, just without the freebies.

In closing, I ask that you let your wallet speak your opinion of GW, and lets all make an effort to make these boards a great place to discuss a game we are all awaiting with barely contained enthusiasim!

 

[privateer]

I personally think the competition's largest problem is the constant change of rules. They put tend to start a game with pretty balanced stuff then proceed to unbalance the game with monthly magazine updates and army books that have to give the latest army/unit/whatever better abilities than those that have gone before. After a couple of years, the rule set is trashed and a new 'cleaner' edition has to be released.

 

[Lonestar]

I too am sorry your PGr's are causing some headaches dude. That type of behavior is NOT condoned by PPS and if it's hurting the game, perhaps you should email PPS_Duncan to discuss your concerns. He's the PG Quartermaster. The Austrailian PGs DO answer to him.

When Rob Hinds was in charge, he tried, Matt tried, but in the end, nothing happened.

So, I am promoting the game un-officially, and will do so with SST, its just a shame there are no other gaming stores in my area (GW being it) so other then my home, I have no other venue to do demo's at. And becuase GW is it for games here, getting a stockest for either WM or SST is a major problem.

But, all my friends are buzzed about SST, and I will be able to get some of the local staffers in on it as well, as I did with WM :wink: So still lots of fun to be had! :lol:

 

[Gauntlet]

I like GW... They are very pricey, they have a bulky rule system, but ultimately the game is alot of fun, very diverse, and the models are IMO 2nd highest possible quality and for many models 1st.

Notably confrontation models are all nearly or definately 1st class quality which is good.

I like SST faster paced rules (i think) slightly cheaper, but ultimately you wont need as much, and ive been waiting for this game for years ever since the movie... because the warrior bug is perfection.

if SST deserves fans it will get fans on its own merrit, and as long as we advocate apropriately im sure the game will be a great success.

 

[nick klose]

I personally think the competition's largest problem is the constant change of rules. They put tend to start a game with pretty balanced stuff then proceed to unbalance the game with monthly magazine updates and army books that have to give the latest army/unit/whatever better abilities than those that have gone before. After a couple of years, the rule set is trashed and a new 'cleaner' edition has to be released.

what do you mean, personally i have played space marines from the begining of the 3rd edition and i have found that no one army is over powered or unbetable. as for changing the rules, the switch from third to fourth edition was soooo hard :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

the 3rd to 4th edition switch was painless. the basics all stayed the same. yes some rules were cleaned up a bit but the 3rd/4th switch is nothing compared to the 2nd to 3rd overhaul.

 

[ianvancheese]

[/quote] i have found that no one army is over powered or unbetable.[/quote]

have u played chaos lately, or ever.......

 

[GamerDude]

I am curious why some folks think GW has a "monopoly" on minature gaming.

I mean, yes they have a "monopoly" on all think WH and WH:40K, but then why should they license out their core product to other people?

The biggest thing everyone who would like to see some "variety" in the market can do is find a competing game company they like, and promote it by FREQUENTLY playing the game at your local game stores, and do that WITHOUT talking down any company. Just play, have fun, and let players make up their own minds...

 

[Godofthunder]

I agree with a few of the posts on this site about GW and their prces for models. If I was not working I would find it hard to continue to support the games that I play (WH, 40K, BFG, Epic, Warmaster). The other thing that really irritates me is that they bring out a new rulebook when they could have put the changes within White Dwarf and then in the compendiums that come out at the end of the year. The changes from 3rd to 4th were not that great and could have been put in the magazine.

GW does not have a monopoly on miniature gaming - there are plenty of companies that do historical wargaming miniatures for every period in history and to different scales. Even in sci-fi there are other manufacturers - for starship games try Full Thrust which also has a construction system in it - which BFG does not.

And there is always boardgaming to go to - although that is not something that should be talked about on a miniatures site!!

 

[ianvancheese]

don't get me wrong people, i don't want GW wiped of the map, i just want um to stop being so cocky and knockin the prices up every 5 mins. i do have niggles with the realism of some rules but they are still ok to play. except damn vehicle rules!

 

[Edge Of Darkness]

After countless years of playing rpgs I have become very interesting in war gaming. I wanted to play something set in the future and 40k seemed like my only option. I've never really been to fond of Games Workshop products...everything is so dark and grotesque. However, with not many options I decided I would give it a shot. I went down to a Games Workshop store and tried out 40k. It was okay I guess. The rules seemed kind of simple, and it left something to be desired. I never really got around to buying anything. My dreams of minature combat fell apart....

BUT WAIT!!!!

Thank goodness for the SST game. I just discovered it this week and I can't wait for it to be released! I'm spreading the good word and trying to get as many of my friends as possible interested in playing. Thank you Mongoose!

 

[Voronesh]

GW doesnt have a monopoly about miniature gaming, same way Microsoft doesnt have a monopoly with operating systems.

BUT if you wanna start war gaming its simply that youll get into contact with GW, same if you wanna have a computer you get in touch with MS software.

 

[Anonymous]

The Microsoft/GW comparison is a good one. Unless you're introduced to the hobby/computers through a veteran of mini gaming/computers, you're not going to be aware that systems/operating systems exist outside of Warhammer/Windows. You're certainly not gonna know about Warmachine/Linux, and while it's possible that you'll have heard of Starhip Troopers/Mac OS, it's unlikely you'll choose them over Warhammer/Microsoft.

Games Workshop don't have a true monopoly, but they do control the market. All of the other mini gaming companies put together don't make a fraction of GWs profits or have a fraction of GWs market share. Games Workshop can keep bumping up prices without increasing quality (debatebly reducing quality) and still not make a loss. If the market WAS fair then GW would have gone out of business long ago.

As it stands, I think Mongoose have the best chance of breaking GWs hold on the market. While steampunk and vivid fantasy may appeal to the geeks* that support the other companies (in the same way that programming appeals to Linux followers), it just does not appeal to Mr Joe Average. On the other hand, elite Marines fighting against savage alien hordes can appeal, Starship troopers even moreso.

Personally I have a feeling that this is the beginning of the end for GW. Mongoose have the backing, the support and the money to make a decent wedge into GWs market share and the fact that they bumped up prices just before the launch of starship troopers doesnt help them.

*not insulting anyone here, it's a title and we should wear it proudly

 

[Turtle]

GW won't really end, it's too well established and its games are playable. I know I'd play their games (Tau anyone?) if they weren't so expensive. In fact, I'd rather not it end since it still is another minis game for people to play.

But, you're right, this is the beginning of the end of GW's lead in the market. Many factors are contributing such as the rise of video games, but this strong competition from Mongoose should do it in. Not only do they have a name and setting that's just as established as Warhammer, the rules sound just great.

 

[ianvancheese]

i agree, GW will not just die out but it will be nice to see some new blood and mongoose is lookin good. I've bin playin 40k for 5 years now and i'm packin it in for a bit until GW loses it's hold and starts actually trying again!

 

[Aman]

well, if you do a careful comparison, you will be able to see most of the pertinant comments made about GW and the upcoming ST.

1 - 40K costs a lot more, model for model and 'force required to force required'. So the individual models cost more, and/or the total forces needed to really play the game within the community cost a lot more.

2 - 40K is a very simple, structured set of rules. I move, shoot, charge and melee, then you do. That is not adequate to portray modern warfare. ST delivers a modern combat game. I know this because I am reading my copy now, assembling my models and played a demo against Sprange last week. And I've played 40K for 4 years, have large IG force, Necrons and unpainted Witch Hunter force. All of which is going on ebay first chance I get.

3 - GW delivers a strong community - no denying it. If you had to move around for a few years, the best thing you could do is play GW since you can play it all over the world. They have a good magazine, stores, and provide decent (not perfect or even adequate all the time) support for their product and their community. To be fair, Mongoose is not at that level although they seem to be working on it. Not to mention that they are owned by Wizards of the Coast, the 2400 pound gorilla of games, that makes GW's 800 pound gorilla look like a mouse. Anyway, we are open to see how successful they are in supporting the game. Personally, I have volunteered and am doing everything I can to turn people I know on to ST. This is because the game mechanics are much more exciting and because I love the fluff of Heinlein better than GW.

4 - GW fluff is a bit juvenile and frankly gross at times. Some of the female figs are just plain embarrassing (would you want a bunch of desirable ladies to know that you painted up Slaaneshi Daemonettes? How about the sado-masochistic Sisters Repentia?) and lots of the chaos stuff is very, very gross. Basically, I would've loved the icky bits of 40K and WFB fluff when I was in middle school (but then again, we also made fart noises with our armpits then), but presently I think it's just tacky. I really like Heinlein's world and vision of the future.

So I am on board with Mongoose. But hey, that's my opinion.

 

[ianvancheese]

and i agree completely and mongoose have my full support.
p.s. hope you've voted

 

[mthomason]

Not to mention that they are owned by Wizards of the Coast, the 2400 pound gorilla of games, that makes GW's 800 pound gorilla look like a mouse.

Really not sure where this rumour keeps popping up from (possibly the amount of d20 material they do, maybe?), but Mongoose isn't owned by WotC... they are very much independent and standing on their own two feet, and hopefully providing as much competition to WotCs products as they're going to with GW

 

[Aman]

actually, I think I saw that rumor here...
:shock:

well, that makes building a community a bit harder (large corporations have more $$ to spend on such things), but it means the independant merchants and volunteers are even more important.

Actually, a lot of people say that the new GW reliance on their own stores is working against them. That I read on a LOTR site I frequent. They were of course concerned. I don't know enough to say that it works or not, but intuitively it seems that cutting out independant retailers for stores when you can still buy on-line cheaper (my standard discount is 30% off, no tax and free shipping) and play at independant stores can't win in the end.

But that's their problem... :lol: