Explosive Power/Two-Weapon Strike

[Voltumna]

Explosive Power is a feat from RoK, Two-Weapon Strike from Hyboria's Fiercest.

The effect of EP is to make an attack as a full round action, taking the maximum Power Attack penalty to hit-bonus to damage, and treat the attack as a critical if it hits, thus multiplying weapon damage.

TWS, you strike simultaneoulsy with two slashing weapons, making a single attack roll that determines the result of both weapon attacks. Criticals are determined for each weapon if aplicable.

So the question is: could you use both feats simultaneously, so as to have critical hits from both weapons, due to their combined effects?

 

[Maximo]

Explosive Power is arguably the most unbalanced feat in the game. Tipically, only a VERY high level character w/ Greater Critical would find more useful to employ a full attack.
Of course there are situations, though, where the feat isn't that useful, but in terms of sheer damage it reigns supreme... Anyway, that's a bit off-topic.

So, out of curiosity, why do you need such godly ammount of damage?
EP+Bardiche+Hit=Death (not that you can't get the same result with other 2-handed weapons).

Anyway, to answer your question, IMHO if you combined the two feats, yeah, it would be a double critical (but as I stated before, that's not even neccesary unless you are fighting barehanded or with a pathetic mace or something like that).

 

[geordiekimbo]

I don't have a copy of the rules myself regarding those feats. But from what you've said I'd say you could combine the two feats, however, the first strike would cause the max damage critical, the second strike if that was also a critical would be a normally rolled and multiplied damage result.

 

[Voltumna]

So, out of curiosity, why do you need such godly ammount of damage.

my character is a thief multiclassing with barbarian, he is taking the ruffian variant rules. this combination of feats would make him even more ruin, and the EP+critcal damage makes up for the lost sneak attack dice.

unless you are fighting barehanded or with a pathetic mace or something like that

exactly, he doesn't use the heaviest weapons, he usualy fights with two short swords, and we have a house rule to use power attack with light weapons 1:1 as discussed recently in the forum.

thanks for the input.

 

[Belkregos]

I don’t think using 2 small weapons (or 1 one handed + 1 light ) with explosive power is any worse than a 2 handed weapon
However I think geoderkimbo’s interpretation seems more appropriate

One concern I have, is using 2 weapon strike with sneak attack, could you combine the damage of 2 sneak attacks in to one strike?

 

[Voltumna]

One concern I have, is using 2 weapon strike with sneak attack, could you combine the damage of 2 sneak attacks in to one strike?

that has been discussed before. the consensus was that sneak attack damage applies to a single weapon.

 

[MadDog]

explosive Power is arguably the most unbalanced feat in the game.

I have to agree. Using the feat virtually guarantees a Massive Damage save upon a hit.

Mad Dog

 

[VincentDarlage]

If I ever get a chance to revise RoK (or at least errata it), Explosive Power is gone. It was written during the playtest before the lowering of Massive Damage. I actually asked that the feat be removed during the playtest of RoK, but the editor at that time (long since gone) ignored the request. I don't allow the feat in my games.

I don't always look into how this feat might horribly combine with other feats because I don't consider the Explosive Power feat to be a valid feat.

 

[Voltumna]

thanks for the input vincent.

yes it is pretty harsh, but i think there are thigs as deadly in the game already, that force tha massive checks with fair frequency. the feat probably needed other kind of restrictions other than applying the full power attack penalty-bonus to attack and damage. i can leave without it.

 

[Seanv]

Vincent, out of curiosity what other if any feats you don't allow in your games?

 

[argo]

Lets say your BAB is +X

Two handed weapon and Explosive Power, use PA for X
B = base two-handed weapon damage
S = Str damage

(B + 1.5*S + 2*X)*2 for a crit = 2B +3S +4X


Two one handed weapons (assume its the same weapon in both hands) with Expolsive Power and Two-Weapon Strike, use PA for X

If you assume that the base damage of your one handed weapon is 1/2 that of your two handed weapon (ie: a broadsword vs a greatsword) then
b = base one-handed weapon damage
2b = B

((b +1*S +X)*2 for crit)*2 for two weapons = 4b + 4S + 4X
= 2B + 4S + 4X

So you are spending an extra feat to to 1S extra damage .... I fail to see any problem with this.


Now, as for the debate over Explosive Power, I don't much like the feat myslef but I don't think it is "the most broken feat evar". If you are using full PA then that means two things: 1)you probably have good odds of forcing a massive damage save on a successful hit, even without crit damage and 2)you probably have lousy odds of hitting on anything much less than a 20

So IMO you are better off keeping your iterative attacks and thus increasing the number of chances you have to roll that 5% hit. The higher your BAB is the worse EP becomes; both because you are giving up more of your itterative attacks and because you are more likely to force a massive damage save without the crit.

Later.

 

[argo]

One concern I have, is using 2 weapon strike with sneak attack, could you combine the damage of 2 sneak attacks in to one strike?

that has been discussed before. the consensus was that sneak attack damage applies to a single weapon.

I agree, you get to apply sneak attack damage only once per attack roll.

Hope that helps.

 

[Foxworthy]

Lets say your BAB is +X

Two handed weapon and Explosive Power, use PA for X
B = base two-handed weapon damage
S = Str damage

(B + 1.5*S + 2*X)*2 for a crit = 2B +3S +4X


Two one handed weapons (assume its the same weapon in both hands) with Expolsive Power and Two-Weapon Strike, use PA for X

If you assume that the base damage of your one handed weapon is 1/2 that of your two handed weapon (ie: a broadsword vs a greatsword) then
b = base one-handed weapon damage
2b = B

((b +1*S +X)*2 for crit)*2 for two weapons = 4b + 4S + 4X
= 2B + 4S + 4X

So you are spending an extra feat to to 1S extra damage .... I fail to see any problem with this.


Now, as for the debate over Explosive Power, I don't much like the feat myslef but I don't think it is "the most broken feat evar". If you are using full PA then that means two things: 1)you probably have good odds of forcing a massive damage save on a successful hit, even without crit damage and 2)you probably have lousy odds of hitting on anything much less than a 20

So IMO you are better off keeping your iterative attacks and thus increasing the number of chances you have to roll that 5% hit. The higher your BAB is the worse EP becomes; both because you are giving up more of your itterative attacks and because you are more likely to force a massive damage save without the crit.

Later.

It would be no extra stength damage, offf hand weapons only have a one half multipler not a full one.

 

[Voltumna]

Now, as for the debate over Explosive Power, I don't much like the feat myslef but I don't think it is "the most broken feat evar". If you are using full PA then that means two things: 1)you probably have good odds of forcing a massive damage save on a successful hit, even without crit damage and 2)you probably have lousy odds of hitting on anything much less than a 20
Later.

You could use EP with other techniques as well. If you feint a target, evern if you have to attack on next round, as EP is a full round action, he will be at DV10. A character using EP don't loose all his attack bonus, only hes base attack bonus, so he will sill have str, feats, and others to aply to his attack roll. As I said, my character is a thief/barbarian, so this is the way I intended to use the feats.

Now a character attacking another with good DV, that could be hard to hit with the full EP penalty from PA.

 

[Voltumna]

So IMO you are better off keeping your iterative attacks and thus increasing the number of chances you have to roll that 5% hit. The higher your BAB is the worse EP becomes; both because you are giving up more of your itterative attacks and because you are more likely to force a massive damage save without the crit.

That's true, you can potentialy deliver more damage while you chop your opponet down to pieces with a full attack, however, each blow is subject to DR if you do not finesse, which could dilute damage considerably. Then a massive damage check is unlikely.

The massive damage check is the rason I wanted to combine these feats. A thief has to be able to kill his victims swiftly.

 

[Voltumna]

Lets say your BAB is +X

Two handed weapon and Explosive Power, use PA for X
B = base two-handed weapon damage
S = Str damage

(B + 1.5*S + 2*X)*2 for a crit = 2B +3S +4X

Is that the way to compute a critical's damage? I thought only weapon's damage is multiplied.

 

[Foxworthy]

Everything is multipled except for extra dice from sneak attacks and such. I'm not sure if Power Attack damage is multipled. I would say no myself but I haven't check to verify that yet.

Edited... Power Attack does get doubled... I can see why Vincent doesn't like EP...

 

[geordiekimbo]

Is that the way to compute a critical's damage? I thought only weapon's damage is multiplied.

Only magical effects and bonuses to damage through extra dice such as sneak attack are added after criticals are rolled.

In addition for working out formulae.
When attacking with two weapon strikes, the strength bonus for the off-handed weapons is half your normal strength bonus.

 

[Voltumna]

Edited... Power Attack does get doubled... I can see why Vincent doesn't like EP...

Now I can see that too. I am not sure how we have handled crits in our game, but wasn't aware everything was multiplied, I think we have been only multiplying weapon damage. And with bardiches it's X3, geez.

 

[argo]

It would be no extra stength damage, offf hand weapons only have a one half multipler not a full one.

Knew I typed up that post too quickly. :roll: