Ship building questions related to weapons

Baltus

Mongoose
I used to play Classic Traveller many years ago. I’ve starting playing again using Mongoose Traveller 2e with the Update versions of the books. I’m reading through the Core Rulebook and Highguard and have some questions relating to weapons and large ships.


Hardpoints.

I know a ship gets 1 hardpoint per 100 tons. For my example, lets use the Mida Agasham destroyer (Highguard page 227), a 3000 ton military ship. It should get 30 hardpoints. This ship has a small particle beam bay, 20 triple turrets (6x missile, 8x pulse and 6x sand) and 2 point defense batteries. According to Highguard, a small or medium bay takes 1 hardpoint while a large bay takes 5 hardpoints. Our 3000 ton destroyer looks like it has used 23 hardpoints; small bay (1), turrets (20) and point defense (2). So does that mean that I still have 7 more hardpoints available? Assuming I am having this ship built, or one similar, and had the cash and available tonnage on the ship, could I add 7 more medium bays or 7 more regular turrets or even 1 large large bay? I realize that it would be difficult to have the tonnage and power available but I’m just looking at hardpoints. My issue is with the number of hardpoints a bay takes up. I would think that a small bay might be 5 hardpoints, a medium bay is 10 and a large bay is 15 hardpoints. In Highguard page 31, it shows small and medium bays take up 1 hardpoint each while a large takes up 5 hard points. Am I missing something or is the available tonnage of the ship and available power the biggest deterrents for not adding lotsof bays?


Damage from multiple turrets.

Using our destroyer above, if I shoot the 8 triple pulse laser turrets at a target, do I need to resolve each turret attack separately? I know that the 3 pulse lasers per turret are treated as one attack with one damage score. But can I calculate all 8 triple turrets worth of damage, assuming I hit? The Core Rulebook and Highguard state:

“For example, if a triple turret with three pulse lasers is fired, it will only make one attack roll but will deal 2D+4 damage (two additional pulse lasers each adding +1 per damage dice).”

The damage of one pulse laser weapon is 2D. If I add one for each additional pulse laser weapons, that should be a +2. So a successful attack should be 2D+2, not 2D+4. But I’ll use their modifiers for this.

There is no mention of a coordinated attack of similar turrets or linked turrets being an option. I would think there should be a way but maybe I just missed it. The reason I’m asking about this is that one triple pulse laser turret would do 2D+4 damage. If I roll a 4 and a 3 for a total of 7, my total damage for that turret would be 11. If I attack and hit a ship with high armor, I may not do any damage. If I was shooting a triple beam laser turret, my damage would be 1D+4. I couldn’t get through a target ship’s armor if it was 10 or higher. If I could link all 8 pulse beam laser turrets and using the same damage modifier, my damage might be 2D+46 (using their doubled add modifier). Or even 2D+23. Now I would be doing damage to the ship’s hull. Against our destroyer, critical hits are ignored from turrets and barbettes. So the attacker could only do a little hull damage from their turrets and barbettes.

I probably missed something but would appreciate some help. Thanks.
 
I did the design for the update on that ship, and I did leave unused hardpoints - ran out of power and crew. For some reason my spreadsheet allocated 2 hard points of the small bay - don't know if that was an error on my part, or an update to the still-in-the-works rules after the fact. But you should have 7 hardpoints to work with for a custom build or a refit.

As for damage, it is per damage dice (2D) and its two dice damage, so 2 x 2 = +4
Triple beam would be one damage dice (not correct use of plural, but 'die' always seems wrong) +2, so it is 1D+2 for a triple turret.

There's no rules in the current edition for batteries (except the fleet rules), so it's turret by turret. A destroyer is not supposed to fight capital ships, so it's designed more around fighting smaller ships and anti-missile, which Point Defence/2 allows it to do for nearby ships as well. The particle beam bay is the only weapon good against a true warship. And missiles - if it dumps 18 missiles into one salvo.

And as the description (carried forward from the previous high-guard and I don't remember how for into the past) says the Imperial Navy isn't sure how to deploy the ships - may some Duke's brother-in-law got the contract originally.
 
“For example, if a triple turret with three pulse lasers is fired, it will only make one attack roll but will deal 2D+4 damage (two additional pulse lasers each adding +1 per damage dice).”

The damage of one pulse laser weapon is 2D. If I add one for each additional pulse laser weapons, that should be a +2. So a successful attack should be 2D+2, not 2D+4. But I’ll use their modifiers for this.
I wondered about this myself, but they are right by their example - each additional laser adds +1 per damage dice of the original, single laser; so starting at 2D damage that means one extra laser adds +2 and a second adds another +2, for a total of +4.
 
I did the design for the update on that ship, and I did leave unused hardpoints - ran out of power and crew. For some reason my spreadsheet allocated 2 hard points of the small bay - don't know if that was an error on my part, or an update to the still-in-the-works rules after the fact. But you should have 7 hardpoints to work with for a custom build or a refit.

As for damage, it is per damage dice (2D) and its two dice damage, so 2 x 2 = +4
Triple beam would be one damage dice (not correct use of plural, but 'die' always seems wrong) +2, so it is 1D+2 for a triple turret.

There's no rules in the current edition for batteries (except the fleet rules), so it's turret by turret. A destroyer is not supposed to fight capital ships, so it's designed more around fighting smaller ships and anti-missile, which Point Defence/2 allows it to do for nearby ships as well. The particle beam bay is the only weapon good against a true warship. And missiles - if it dumps 18 missiles into one salvo.

And as the description (carried forward from the previous high-guard and I don't remember how for into the past) says the Imperial Navy isn't sure how to deploy the ships - may some Duke's brother-in-law got the contract originally.
There are actually rules for weapon batteries and battery fire, it’s in the Imperial Navy book
 
1. The Mida Agasham class is a legacy design, so the author usually has to shoehorn in rule changes to get a somewhat similar performance.

2. Sometimes, you get a mutation - Ghalalk class.

3. It's a hardpoint per full hundred tonnes.

4. Usually, when you run out of power before hardpoints, you add sandcasters.

5. Damage potential against spacecraft armour should be viewed about the same as various gun calibres against dreadnought armour: you usually need capital ship guns to make a dent, let alone a hole.
 
Regarding weapon batteries: In short, they can allow fewer gunners to handle more turrets if one wishes to save on crew.

They can choose between two firing modes, focused or dispersed, to increase hit chance or damage.
 
Thank you everyone. So I was thinking correctly on the hardpoint issue. The destroyer in the example does have 7 hardpoints available. I'll try to look into the Imperial Navy book for battery fire.

This all stemmed from me bringing an old ship from Classic to MgT2; the Aslan Hero Class Intruder Transport. I initially did a straight conversion to the MgT2 ruleset and ended up with over 100 tons of cargo space. The Classic version didn't have any cargo space. So I built it fresh and made some adjustments that are currently available. I changed the 2 - 50 ton missile bays to medium missile bays. Then took one out and put in a medium Ortillary Strike Mass Driver Bay to be able to help support the ground troops. Many more changes were made but it still has a good feel to the original version. I might add another weapon bay since I have more available tonnage and increase the size of the power plant to support it.
 
Okay, p. 113 "a single attack roll is made and damage from one turret or barbette is applied,
with DM+2 per damage dice for every four turrets involved in the attack."

Hurts my head. So with four pulse laser triple turrets is that 2D+4 +2 or for eight turrets (PPP) 2D+4 +4 ?
 
This all stemmed from me bringing an old ship from Classic to MgT2; the Aslan Hero Class Intruder Transport. I initially did a straight conversion to the MgT2 ruleset and ended up with over 100 tons of cargo space. The Classic version didn't have any cargo space.
That is the general result; MgT ships are a bit more efficient than CT ships.
 
Okay, p. 113 "a single attack roll is made and damage from one turret or barbette is applied,
with DM+2 per damage dice for every four turrets involved in the attack."

Hurts my head. So with four pulse laser triple turrets is that 2D+4 +2 or for eight turrets (PPP) 2D+4 +4 ?
DM+2 per damage dice, and pulse lasers rolling 2D for damage, so triple pulse lasers would be 2D+4 +2x2? Total damage 2D+8 for 4 triple turrets firing together? I think?
 
DM+2 per damage dice, and pulse lasers rolling 2D for damage, so triple pulse lasers would be 2D+4 +2x2? Total damage 2D+8 for 4 triple turrets firing together? I think?
I believe you're correct.
Problem is, this addition has blow-back into design consideration: focus on building like turrets in sets of four. Plus possible crew size modification.

Okay, I at least will promise going forward to avoid additions to rules buried in the odd supplement unless it is 'fixing' a broken or incomplete rule. And even then bold print and some mention in the intro.
 
It is an odd rule to come out after all the fighting ships have been designed in High Guard, agreed.

Assuming they need to be built as a battery to start with.

I intend to use it as a tactic rather than as a design.

For example, an Element cruiser has 12x laser turrets on each pod. I’d let the captain order them to group into batteries as needed, on a per pod basis.

Have them fire individually when defending, group up for battery fire when on the offensive.
 
Okay, p. 113 "a single attack roll is made and damage from one turret or barbette is applied,
with DM+2 per damage dice for every four turrets involved in the attack."

Hurts my head. So with four pulse laser triple turrets is that 2D+4 +2 or for eight turrets (PPP) 2D+4 +4 ?

Yeah, me too. I do get the rule, but I don't know what the designer's intent was. Mainly a way to punch through thicker armor, or to reduce dice rolls and move things along? Obviously it does some of both, but I still don't know what the point was.

Overall the new High Guard is growing on me, especially the power system making power plant management meaningful. But there are still these points where I don't know what they were going for.
 
My house rule, adapted from how I handle basic ship combat.

A double mount gets +1 to hit or +2 to damage, gunners choice, a triple mount gets either +2 to hit or +4 damage.

Extend this to turret batteries for fleet combat, or even bay weapon battery fire.
 
Okay, p. 113 "a single attack roll is made and damage from one turret or barbette is applied,
with DM+2 per damage dice for every four turrets involved in the attack."

Hurts my head. So with four pulse laser triple turrets is that 2D+4 +2 or for eight turrets (PPP) 2D+4 +4 ?
It gets worse.

High Guard page 67 introduces the power-hungry Plasma-pulse Cannon. In a turret, this weapon is 2D damage & Auto4. How does that work in a double, triple, or quadruple turret? I get that the damage of a single weapon would be 2D in single-fire mode; and in 'Burst fire' mode it would be 2D+4, but from there everything gets very, very strange. How does 'Fully Automatic Fire' work for starship scale weapons? How does it work in multi-weapon mounts? How does any of this interact with the rules for 'High Yield' weapons?

PPCs in Barbettes are 3D damage & Auto4; in small bays are 6D damage & Auto6; in medium and larger bays are 8D damage and Auto8.
 
For the plasma pulse cannon with base damage 2D, I’d add the barrels together first, like with any multi-mount weapon.

So, 2D + 2 for double turret, 2D + 4 for triple.

After that I’d add the auto effects, so a triple plasma pulse burst fire would be 2D + 4 + 4, and full auto fire would be four attack rolls at 2D + 4, just like with handheld weaponry. Imho.
 
Back
Top